If kavalactones are water insoluble what is colouring the water that brown colour?

[new-kavadonia]

Sorry idk if this is the right thread to ask this.

I was experimenting with my kava prep as I do basically every time I make kava but this time I forgot I had something I needed to do before I could start making kava and ended up leaving the kava soaking in cold water in the fridge for a good few hours before I remembered it was there. However, the water without practically any kneading was this intense dark brown colour like tea, and had an extremely pronounced earthy smell. Not just this but the water didn't look like normal kava water, it didn't have that silky non-transparent look that kava usually has, the water was still clear and you could see your hand on the other glass. I was just then wondering since kavalactones are supposed to be water-insoluble what is staining the water this deep brown colour. I have usually attributed kavalactones as being that thin layer of oil you can often see at the surface of the water when making kava, but perhaps this isn't true. Does the staining even come from kavalactones, is it a suspension of them or other root materials entirely?

Any insight would be great

 

[The Kap'n]

Sorry idk if this is the right thread to ask this.

I was experimenting with my kava prep as I do basically every time I make kava but this time I forgot I had something I needed to do before I could start making kava and ended up leaving the kava soaking in cold water in the fridge for a good few hours before I remembered it was there. However, the water without practically any kneading was this intense dark brown colour like tea, and had an extremely pronounced earthy smell. Not just this but the water didn't look like normal kava water, it didn't have that silky non-transparent look that kava usually has, the water was still clear and you could see your hand on the other glass. I was just then wondering since kavalactones are supposed to be water-insoluble what is staining the water this deep brown colour. I have usually attributed kavalactones as being that thin layer of oil you can often see at the surface of the water when making kava, but perhaps this isn't true. Does the staining even come from kavalactones, is it a suspension of them or other root materials entirely?

Any insight would be great

These are known as the chalcone pigments, of which Flavokavain A, B, and C have been identified.

 

[new-kavadonia]

These are known as the chalcone pigments, of which Flavokavain A, B, and C have been identified.

Are these the possible "bad" compounds of kava?

 

[The Kap'n]

Are these the possible "bad" compounds of kava?

Possibly, but there are still outstanding areas to research, and this is definitely one of them. The flavokavains are the colorants, however it may be others adding to this seeing as flavokavains are so sparse in standard kavas, usually in the .15% range. Be that as it may, I suspect there are other constituents playing a role in this as well.

To directly answer your question, possibly, but again without further research we're sorta grasping at straws. Flavokavains have protective and toxic properties, however dosages for that are usually several orders of magnitude higher than what we would find in traditionally prepped kavas.

 

[new-kavadonia]

Possibly, but there are still outstanding areas to research, and this is definitely one of them. The flavokavains are the colorants, however it may be others adding to this seeing as flavokavains are so sparse in standard kavas, usually in the .15% range. Be that as it may, I suspect there are other constituents playing a role in this as well.

To directly answer your question, possibly, but again without further research we're sorta grasping at straws. Flavokavains have protective and toxic properties, however dosages for that are usually several orders of magnitude higher than what we would find in traditionally prepped kavas.

So would there be any benefit / disbenefit to drinking that dark brown water? Some people on some threads I found claimed it released more kavain but I don't see any reasoning behind it

 

[The Kap'n]

So would there be any benefit / disbenefit to drinking that dark brown water? Some people on some threads I found claimed it released more kavain but I don't see any reasoning behind it

There are some kavalactones with slight water solubility such as DHM, so while it may add a little to the experience, it's likely not much. If it were mine I'd just mix it around and make it part of the emulsion.

Eh, can't verify the claim on kavain. Kavain being highly lipophilic would lead us to think that it's likely not going to be extracted with a simple steep.

 

[Zaphod]

Sorry idk if this is the right thread to ask this.

I was experimenting with my kava prep as I do basically every time I make kava but this time I forgot I had something I needed to do before I could start making kava and ended up leaving the kava soaking in cold water in the fridge for a good few hours before I remembered it was there. However, the water without practically any kneading was this intense dark brown colour like tea, and had an extremely pronounced earthy smell. Not just this but the water didn't look like normal kava water, it didn't have that silky non-transparent look that kava usually has, the water was still clear and you could see your hand on the other glass. I was just then wondering since kavalactones are supposed to be water-insoluble what is staining the water this deep brown colour. I have usually attributed kavalactones as being that thin layer of oil you can often see at the surface of the water when making kava, but perhaps this isn't true. Does the staining even come from kavalactones, is it a suspension of them or other root materials entirely?

Any insight would be great

Those are a mixture of the main flavor compounds known as poolactones, mudlactones, and dirtlactones. Without those kava would not have its earthy, muddy, recycled yummy taste.

 

[Zaphod]

On a more serious note - I am more and more convinced that the act of preparing kava is more a mechanical washing, separation, and filtering than "extracting" kavalactones. I can get good results from putting kava in a bag tie it shut and shake the heck out of it without ever squeezing or kneading. I think kneading the bag helps push particles through the filter but doesn't really extract much more kavalactones from the particles. Your stomach does the bulk of the extraction process from kava. That said using hot water definitely makes kava stronger (and a lot more bitter) so that may do a bit more extraction and blending may up it a bit more as well but I think these are small additions not bulk extraction of kavalactone from the plant material. At least not anywhere close to using a solvent like ethanol.

 

[new-kavadonia]

There are some kavalactones with slight water solubility such as DHM, so while it may add a little to the experience, it's likely not much. If it were mine I'd just mix it around and make it part of the emulsion.

Eh, can't verify the claim on kavain. Kavain being highly lipophilic would lead us to think that it's likely not going to be extracted with a simple steep.

Do you think in theory discarding the infused water would lead to kava being any less nauseating?

 

[The Kap'n]

Do you think in theory discarding the infused water would lead to kava being any less nauseating?

Good question. It's possible seeing as DHM has slight water solubility, but honestly it's likely not to, because the bulk of the kavalactones would still be bound in root fibers.

 

[The Kap'n]

On a more serious note - I am more and more convinced that the act of preparing kava is more a mechanical washing, separation, and filtering than "extracting" kavalactones. I can get good results from putting kava in a bag tie it shut and shake the heck out of it without ever squeezing or kneading. I think kneading the bag helps push particles through the filter but doesn't really extract much more kavalactones from the particles. Your stomach does the bulk of the extraction process from kava. That said using hot water definitely makes kava stronger (and a lot more bitter) so that may do a bit more extraction and blending may up it a bit more as well but I think these are small additions not bulk extraction of kavalactone from the plant material. At least not anywhere close to using a solvent like ethanol.

I 100% agree. We should throw the word "Extraction" away when speaking about traditional prepared kava. Emulsion is far more accurate.