I'm seriously considering giving up kava for good. Here is why.
- Thread starter nhoeg
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Capitán Bastos
Presanteur
Here are some general pointers:
- Avoid or reduce eating canned foods and ready meals
- Avoid or reduce eating ripened and fermented foods (older cheeses, alcoholic drinks, products containing yeast, stale fish)
- Histamine levels in foods vary, depending on how ripe, matured or hygienic the foods are
- As much as it is possible, only buy and eat fresh products
- Don’t allow foods to linger outside the refrigerator – especially meat products
- Ensure that your food preparation area (kitchen) is always kept clean – but don’t be manic!
- Everyone has their own threshold; you will need to find yours
- Consult a certified dietician about working out a balanced diet
- Learn to cook! It can be loads of fun once you get into it
- Fresh meat (cooled, frozen or fresh)
- Freshly caught fish
- Chicken (skinned and fresh)
- Egg yolk
- Fresh fruits – with the exception of strawberries, most fresh fruits are considered to have a low histamine level (also see histamine liberators below)
- Fresh vegetables – with the exception of tomatoes
- Grains – rice noodles, yeast free rye bread, rice crisp bread, oats, puffed rice crackers, millet flour, pasta (spelt and corn based)
- Fresh pasteurised milk and milk products
- Milk substitutes – coconut milk, rice milk
- Cream cheese, butter (without the histamine generating rancidity)
- Most cooking oils – check suitability before use
- Most leafy herbs – check suitability before use
- Most non-citric fruit juices
- Herbal teas – with the exception of those listed below
- Alcohol
- Pickled or canned foods – sauerkrauts
- Matured cheeses
- Smoked meat products – salami, ham, sausages….
- Shellfish
- Beans and pulses – chickpeas, soy beans, peanuts
- Nuts – walnuts, cashew nuts
- Chocolates and other cocoa based products
- Vinegar
- Ready meals
- Salty snacks, sweets with preservatives and artificial colourings
- Most citric fruits – kiwi, lemon, lime, pineapple, plums…
- Cocoa and chocolate
- Nuts
- Papaya
- Beans and pulses
- Tomatoes
- Wheat germ
- Additives – benzoate, sulphites, nitrites, glutamate, food dyes
- Alcohol
- Black tea
- Energy drinks
- Green tea
- Mate tea
- Yoghurt – depends on the bacteria culture used
- Egg white – it is a histamine liberator only when in its raw state
- Yeast – even though it does not contain histamine as such, yeast serves as a catalyst for histamine generation during manufacture. There is no yeast in the end product.
violet
Do all things with love
All depends on your personal chemistry. I'd give it a few weeks in the least. The longer you can give your body a rest from the high histamine the better. Beyond the obvious flushing reactions, you may notice other things with a trial of elimination. High histamine affects multiple organ systems.
It wasn't specifically mentioned in the list, but anything fermented will usually cause histamine reactions. There are certain strains of probiotics that should also be avoided.
Capitán Bastos
Presanteur
Only issue I've had is slightly dry skin on my hands. Using gloves while I prepare the kava, removed that problem.
I have itchy scalp and irritated runny eyes, when I DON'T have kava,
In my case, Kava helps alleviate those issues.
I have itchy scalp and irritated runny eyes, when I DON'T have kava,
In my case, Kava helps alleviate those issues.
I hope this reaches you, @nhoeg!
FKA/B activate a heat shock response?
Perhaps related to your heat regulation/flushing response. As a pro athlete, I imagine heat regulation is pretty damn important to you.
Steve
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26789234
Pharm Biol. 2016 Jan 20:1-10. [Epub ahead of print]
Flavokawains A and B from kava (Piper methysticum) activate heat shock and antioxidant responses and protect against hydrogen peroxide-induced cell death in HepG2 hepatocytes.
Pinner KD1, Wales CT1, Gristock RA1, Vo HT1, So N1, Jacobs AT1,2.
Author information
Abstract
Context Flavokawains are secondary metabolites from the kava plant (Piper methysticum Forst. f., Piperaceae) that have anticancer properties and demonstrated oral efficacy in murine cancer models. However, flavokawains also have suspected roles in rare cases of kava-induced hepatotoxicity. Objective To compare the toxicity flavokawains A and B (FKA, FKB) and monitor the resulting transcriptional responses and cellular adaptation in the human hepatocyte cell line, HepG2. Materials and methods HepG2 were treated with 2-100 μM FKA or FKB for 24-48 h. Cellular viability was measured with calcein-AM and changes in signalling and gene expression were monitored by luciferase reporter assay, real-time PCR and Western blot of both total and nuclear protein extracts. To test for subsequent resistance to oxidative stress, cells were pretreated with 50 μM FKA, 10 μM FKB or 10 μM sulphoraphane (SFN) for 24 h, followed by 0.4-2.8 mM H2O2 for 48 h, and then viability was assessed. Results FKA (≤100 μM) was not toxic to HepG2, whereas FKB caused significant cell death (IC50=23.2 ± 0.8 μM). Both flavokawains activated Nrf2, increasing HMOX1 and GCLC expression and enhancing total glutathione levels over 2-fold (p < 0.05). FKA and FKB also activated HSF1, increasing HSPA1A and DNAJA4 expression. Also, flavokawain pretreatment mitigated cell death after a subsequent challenge with H2O2, with FKA being more effective than FKB, and similar to SFN. Conclusions Flavokawains promote an adaptive cellular response that protects hepatocytes against oxidative stress. We propose that FKA has potential as a chemopreventative or chemotherapeutic agent.
KEYWORDS:
Cell stress; HSF1; Nrf2; hepatotoxic; viability
PMID:
26789234
[PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
FKA/B activate a heat shock response?
Perhaps related to your heat regulation/flushing response. As a pro athlete, I imagine heat regulation is pretty damn important to you.
Steve
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26789234
Pharm Biol. 2016 Jan 20:1-10. [Epub ahead of print]
Flavokawains A and B from kava (Piper methysticum) activate heat shock and antioxidant responses and protect against hydrogen peroxide-induced cell death in HepG2 hepatocytes.
Pinner KD1, Wales CT1, Gristock RA1, Vo HT1, So N1, Jacobs AT1,2.
Author information
Abstract
Context Flavokawains are secondary metabolites from the kava plant (Piper methysticum Forst. f., Piperaceae) that have anticancer properties and demonstrated oral efficacy in murine cancer models. However, flavokawains also have suspected roles in rare cases of kava-induced hepatotoxicity. Objective To compare the toxicity flavokawains A and B (FKA, FKB) and monitor the resulting transcriptional responses and cellular adaptation in the human hepatocyte cell line, HepG2. Materials and methods HepG2 were treated with 2-100 μM FKA or FKB for 24-48 h. Cellular viability was measured with calcein-AM and changes in signalling and gene expression were monitored by luciferase reporter assay, real-time PCR and Western blot of both total and nuclear protein extracts. To test for subsequent resistance to oxidative stress, cells were pretreated with 50 μM FKA, 10 μM FKB or 10 μM sulphoraphane (SFN) for 24 h, followed by 0.4-2.8 mM H2O2 for 48 h, and then viability was assessed. Results FKA (≤100 μM) was not toxic to HepG2, whereas FKB caused significant cell death (IC50=23.2 ± 0.8 μM). Both flavokawains activated Nrf2, increasing HMOX1 and GCLC expression and enhancing total glutathione levels over 2-fold (p < 0.05). FKA and FKB also activated HSF1, increasing HSPA1A and DNAJA4 expression. Also, flavokawain pretreatment mitigated cell death after a subsequent challenge with H2O2, with FKA being more effective than FKB, and similar to SFN. Conclusions Flavokawains promote an adaptive cellular response that protects hepatocytes against oxidative stress. We propose that FKA has potential as a chemopreventative or chemotherapeutic agent.
KEYWORDS:
Cell stress; HSF1; Nrf2; hepatotoxic; viability
PMID:
26789234
[PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
violet
Do all things with love
Heat shock proteins are most commonly produced by living cells under stressful conditions (excess cold, heat, toxins, pathogens, etc). They play a role in maintaining proper folding of proteins during cell replication (prevent damage during transcription of DNA). The weight of the heat shock protein can be indicative of the type of stress that induced it. This is descriptive of cellular stress on a molecular level.
The above study put isolated FKA and FKB on an in-vitro research line of liver cancer cells and discovered that the FKA/FKB activated heat shock factor 1 (HSF1) which caused the cells to produce protective heat shock proteins (temperature not a variable).
While both FKA and FKB induced protective effects on the liver cancer cells, the FKB caused cell apoptosis, killing the cancer cells.
The above study put isolated FKA and FKB on an in-vitro research line of liver cancer cells and discovered that the FKA/FKB activated heat shock factor 1 (HSF1) which caused the cells to produce protective heat shock proteins (temperature not a variable).
While both FKA and FKB induced protective effects on the liver cancer cells, the FKB caused cell apoptosis, killing the cancer cells.
nhoeg
Kava Manliness
Thanks for the post, @Steve Mariotti !
skippykava
Kava Curious
I've stopped consuming kava. I would get bad dry eyes from it. However, I've been getting dry eyes without drinking kava too in recent years. It seems to happen in the winter more. It may also happen as a result of eating too much fat or from eating certain plants like onions or turmeric, I'm not sure.
I've had myofascial pain syndrome for many years and that was one reason I first was interested in kava. Another symptom I've had is a flushing of the skin sort of like rosecea, but in the neck, chest, torso, not the face.
I see wikipedia says that there may be a connection between blepharitis which is inflation of the eyelids and skin rocea. It also says that there is growing evidence it is cause by demodex mites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blepharitis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meibomian_gland
I did a search for Bartonella and Rosacea and got this result:
https://www.rosacea.org/weblog/knowledge-demodex-rosacea-tip-iceberg
I've had an interest in Bartonella for a number of years as a possible cause of muscle pain, unusual nerve like sensations such as cold water, stinging etc.
I've had myofascial pain syndrome for many years and that was one reason I first was interested in kava. Another symptom I've had is a flushing of the skin sort of like rosecea, but in the neck, chest, torso, not the face.
I see wikipedia says that there may be a connection between blepharitis which is inflation of the eyelids and skin rocea. It also says that there is growing evidence it is cause by demodex mites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blepharitis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meibomian_gland
I did a search for Bartonella and Rosacea and got this result:
https://www.rosacea.org/weblog/knowledge-demodex-rosacea-tip-iceberg
I've had an interest in Bartonella for a number of years as a possible cause of muscle pain, unusual nerve like sensations such as cold water, stinging etc.
violet
Do all things with love
@skippykava Bartonella can definitely cause the dry eye symptoms and a plethora of other problems as you may already be aware. Testing for it can be pricey and woefully inadequate, many docs that treat it often do so with a clinical diagnosis. It has a hard time getting a foothold to cause effects on the body unless the immune system is impaired.
There are many strains of Bart and they can be spread by a multitude of arthropod vectors (fleas, lice, biting flies, midges, ticks, spiders, and even the wood louse AKA roly-poly bug, etc). Some animals (cats, dogs, cattle, probably others) are reservoirs. Bart is often accompanies other stealth infections, often Lyme and babesia. Here in the mid-Atlantic that is the rule not the exception, some doc's refer to them as "the big 3." Both Lyme and babesia survive by compromising the immune system which causes all kinds of crazy issues over time.
If you think you might need treatment for Bart you might want to look at Lyme too. But also know test results are very controversial for many reasons, lots of false negatives have sent too many on to years of suffering and getting worse.
There are many strains of Bart and they can be spread by a multitude of arthropod vectors (fleas, lice, biting flies, midges, ticks, spiders, and even the wood louse AKA roly-poly bug, etc). Some animals (cats, dogs, cattle, probably others) are reservoirs. Bart is often accompanies other stealth infections, often Lyme and babesia. Here in the mid-Atlantic that is the rule not the exception, some doc's refer to them as "the big 3." Both Lyme and babesia survive by compromising the immune system which causes all kinds of crazy issues over time.
If you think you might need treatment for Bart you might want to look at Lyme too. But also know test results are very controversial for many reasons, lots of false negatives have sent too many on to years of suffering and getting worse.
skippykava
Kava Curious
@violet Oh, I already tried treatment for Borrelia and Bartonella years ago. The antibiotics caused a lot of neuropathy type problems for many years and still haven't gone away completely. I found a doctor who was willing to treat based on the possibility I guess, even though he said he had tests that were positive I later concluded they were not valid.
I've since tested for Borrelia with the Ceres Nanoscience antigen test and it was negative. This is the best test there is and very new. The only way it could be a false negative I think is maybe if the infection was localized to my spinal fluid or something then maybe the antigens wouldn't get out that way.
I don't have any of the obvious signs of Bartonella like the fake stretch mark looking lines. The only thing I'm going on is the possible microvascular symptoms and the strange water sensations I can get all over from pressure on a body part or just scratching the skin. I'll consider a bartonella antigen test if it ever becomes available, but it doesn't exist yet. I wonder about babesia sometimes too, but I think it is not linked to these symptoms. Some day the antigen test will probably test for all three in a panel together.
I may have found the cause of the dry eyes or a significant contributor. I had thought in the past that certain plant foods that decrease mucous might cause it like cilantro, onions etc. I found a list somewhere and I noticed a year or so ago that I got an attack when I was eating a lot of that. Also, more recently the only one I ate was a small whole onion in my soup a day or two.
I went to the nurse practitioner and she suggested low iron could be a cause of the dry eyes and tested for that. This turned up negative, but got me thinking that maybe an anemia could cause it. I did some researching and it looks like onions are actually poisonous and could cause anemia. It happens a lot more in cats and other animals, but I believe it can happen in humans too. I'm going to treat onions, and garlic for that matter, as a poison and not eat it anymore. I suggest everyone else do the same.
I've since tested for Borrelia with the Ceres Nanoscience antigen test and it was negative. This is the best test there is and very new. The only way it could be a false negative I think is maybe if the infection was localized to my spinal fluid or something then maybe the antigens wouldn't get out that way.
I don't have any of the obvious signs of Bartonella like the fake stretch mark looking lines. The only thing I'm going on is the possible microvascular symptoms and the strange water sensations I can get all over from pressure on a body part or just scratching the skin. I'll consider a bartonella antigen test if it ever becomes available, but it doesn't exist yet. I wonder about babesia sometimes too, but I think it is not linked to these symptoms. Some day the antigen test will probably test for all three in a panel together.
I may have found the cause of the dry eyes or a significant contributor. I had thought in the past that certain plant foods that decrease mucous might cause it like cilantro, onions etc. I found a list somewhere and I noticed a year or so ago that I got an attack when I was eating a lot of that. Also, more recently the only one I ate was a small whole onion in my soup a day or two.
I went to the nurse practitioner and she suggested low iron could be a cause of the dry eyes and tested for that. This turned up negative, but got me thinking that maybe an anemia could cause it. I did some researching and it looks like onions are actually poisonous and could cause anemia. It happens a lot more in cats and other animals, but I believe it can happen in humans too. I'm going to treat onions, and garlic for that matter, as a poison and not eat it anymore. I suggest everyone else do the same.
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