Kava and K@

[Buddhacide]

Been rounding off my black bag kava the last few nights with some good K@. Anyone else enjoy this combination? The black bag stuff is awesome on its own, but the synergy is great.

 

[Vekta]

K@? Nah, that's ok I'm not a fan if Diarrhea.(smiley: laugh) 
But seriously...lets be.....careful (smiley: ohwell)

 

[Buddhacide]

I've had mixed experiences. If used correctly its a great experience.

 

[kavalover]

If used correctly, exactly. But it's a very easy mix to offshoot and end up with terrible nausea and digestive hell. At least in my experience. I wouldn't recommend it, kava and K@ can both be godsends in their realms of psychoactivity on their own, mixing them can be nice but, ah, I don't know. Feels unnecessary to me. To each their own of course.

 

[kl.NTXroxtar]

I love K@ (bali) and I do use it on the same day that I use kava. I don't do them right on top of eachother because I like to feel each of them on their own. I have thought about it, though.... Knowing me, it's only a matter of time... ;-)

 

[Vekta]

Only issue I see with it is if one of you gets put in the hospital it's going to do pretty bad things to Kava's already tarnished reputation regardless of the fact that you're using K@. If I remember right, possession of it is punishable by death in it's country of origin. I don't know about you but that's saying something in a big way without actually saying it....just sayin.

 

[kavalover]

Kava's reputation was already tarnished by K@ when kava bars were putting K@ in their drinks without costumer notice - bad move indeed. People were complainignof being "Addicted" to kava due to kratoms addictive nature. Like I said, K@ can be as much of a godsend as kava, it's helped me with post surgery pain and my grandma uses it to tone down the shooting pains from her spinal stenosis. But kava + K@ doesn't make too much sense to me. They just work medicinally for different things.



Yeah Vekta, using K@ is Thailand has been a punishable offense as with all narcotics - as K@ acts on the opiod receptors this makes sense - but it is actually relatively safe on its own if not used with other depressants - which kava has been known to exhibit depressive effects so again, I wouldn't recommend this combination at all. There are just too many potential negatives in kava and K@ both to use them together. Nausea, vomiting, "the spins" ect ect ect - I like them both, but not together.

 

[kl.new2kava]

I always found K@ to have a more stimulant effect and when combined with kava the two seemed to cancel each other out as well as seriously increase upset stomach. K@ has always been a massive dissapointment to me anyways. I was a very heavy opiate abuser and used K@ extract to ween of suboxone when getting off heroin but never actually received any effects from K@ other than lessening withdrawal symtoms and cravings. I've tried a bunch of times to get off with K@ and usually just end up puking and getting dizzy but never experience any euphoria. I actaully retried K@ a few weeks back and got 30 grams of resin extract and pretty much used it all in one sitting with no effects other than nasua and slight dysphoria, could be my opioid receptors are hardwired for more powerfull agonists. Kava on the other hand works for me every time and I find that it works best on it's own, I did mix it a few times with mulungu tea and the effect was quite mellow and dreamy but also caused puking.

 

[Buddhacide]

I would be surprised if they were not used together regularly, as they are so often sold together. The key I find with K@ is to use about half the internet's recommended dosage, and not to push a good feeling for a "great" one. That said, I find they go nice together. I'm not really overly concerned with the potential "politics" of mixing two things of this nature together, but I appreciate the point. That's interesting K@ was added to kava at kava bars. Was this a big thing that was exposed at some point or are you talking more from experience? I'd be interested in reading more about that. Cheers, J.

 

[Ozzyfan121]

K@ and kava have the potential to synergize very well. Moderation is key; I find a half dose of each to be ideal. When used responsibly, the opiate-like effects from the K@ go well with the unique effects of kava. Addiction is possible, but the withdrawals are not as severe for most people as the media tends to claim.

 

[kl.Gray Owl]

I would be surprised if they were not used together regularly, as they are so often sold together. The key I find with K@ is to use about half the internet's recommended dosage, and not to push a good feeling for a "great" one. That said, I find they go nice together. I'm not really overly concerned with the potential "politics" of mixing two things of this nature together, but I appreciate the point. That's interesting K@ was added to kava at kava bars. Was this a big thing that was exposed at some point or are you talking more from experience? I'd be interested in reading more about that. Cheers, J.

Agreed, better to start low and "titrate" to find the minimum effective dosage, 1/2 what people recommend on the Internet or less is quite sufficient.  I prefer to "rotate" my herbs rather than combining them so that I avoid building up tolerance or becoming addicted to any one herb.

Whether the effects are energizing or sedating depends a lot on the strain and how it interacts with your personal chemistry.  Also, the vendor that you get it from is important, it's better to get K@ from a vendor who specializes in that and identifies the strains so that you know what you're getting.  I find it to be very helpful for sleeping and to produce very vivid dreams, most importantly my joints don't kill me when I get up in the morning, ordinarily I feel like crap until noon or later.  They can't give me NSAIDs because of the risk of internal bleeding so that leaves prescription opioids or corticosteroids, which I am trying to avoid as long a I can.  I've been on prednisone before and withdrawal from that was an ordeal that I thought would never end.

 

[Buddhacide]

I find with K@ the line between euphoria and nausea is so blurred. I basically stick to a rule of 5 grams at a time for most leafs, and have learned to resist the urge to take more as being the key to a good time with it. When K@ goes wrong it goes really wrong. It certainly needs to be treated with alot of respect. I've read online of people taking 25 grams or more and not having any problems, but I'm pretty sure that would be one of the worst experiences I could imagine.

 

[Bula Kava House]

I hope y'all don't like K@ too much. Looks as though the DEA is cracking down. Along with nationwide seizures this week of synthetic cannabis and bath salts, a lot of K@ being sold as incense was confiscated as well. It's looking like it won't be long until importation and sale of K@ for any use will be completely criminalized.

 

[Buddhacide]

Yeah that's a shame. I was waiting to see what effect this bath salts witch hunt would have on the ethnobotanical market. I'm in Canada, hopefully we wont be hit as badly. K@ isnt an every day thing, but I like having some handy.

 

[kl.KarmaG]

You're right, Judd. I've read the same myself and I must admit that it completely infuriates me. I've never tried K@, probably never will (doesn't sound like it's my kind of thing), but it doesn't seem to make sense that something that is not illegal would be confiscated by the DEA. Seriously, tons of herbs come though customs daily, I'm sure, so why the double standard? Sounds like big pharma conspiracy to me since so many people seem to be effectively treating pain with K@ rather than turning to more addictive and more dangerous pharmaceuticals.



Sure, there's the addiction argument but if they're so worried about addiction potential, then why is phenibut still allowed to be sold as an OTC supplement? That's supposed to have horrible withdrawals, and having benzo action, these withdrawals can be really dangerous. It just doesn't make sense to me. If they can confiscate anything based on some whim regardless of legality, what's to stop them from doing the same with kava if the mood strikes??



And on that note, I'm going to go brew myself up a few bowls of grog!

 

[kl.KarmaG]

Yeah that's a shame. I was waiting to see what effect this bath salts witch hunt would have on the ethnobotanical market. I'm in Canada, hopefully we wont be hit as badly. K@ isnt an every day thing, but I like having some handy.

Yeah, these damn bath salts are causing a lot of trouble. I can only hope that ethnobotanicals don't get lumped into the same category of nefarious substances but let's face it, the guys making the laws don't have the first clue. They're like 70 years old and look at anything new as something threatening. Instead of educating themselves, it seems that a knee jerk reaction is the standard response. To my knowledge, there have been no reported deaths from K@. I know there are countless deaths from pharmaceuticals every year. It's a good thing they're around to "protect" us.

 

[kl.new2kava]

I hope y'all don't like K@ too much. Looks as though the DEA is cracking down. Along with nationwide seizures this week of synthetic cannabis and bath salts, a lot of K@ being sold as incense was confiscated as well. It's looking like it won't be long until importation and sale of K@ for any use will be completely criminalized.

From what I've read there is at least one state illegalizing it as we speak, Kansas I believe. My first thought was that it would follow suit with slavia and only get banned in the bible belt states. But seeing how salvia is something that most people use once or at best occasionally there is not much of a concern in habitual use and addiction. The mere fact that K@ is active on the opioid receptor and can cause physical and psychological dependance is going to be the death of it. Also vendors vastly overhype it and make sure to mention that it is an opioid agonist in their advertisment as well as constantly make exceeding strong extracts of it. Seeing how it can be used as a tool to ween off of opiates the pharmaceutical companies may likely lobby against it as they make a killing with suboxone and methodone and hate herbal competition. I have no love for the stuff I just wish the government would knock this shit off, the entire controlled substance act was blatently unconstitutional and the prison industrial complex/drug war is just asinine.

 

[Buddhacide]

The US needs to get real about their puritanical drug ideologies. US doctors will prescribe you opiates all day long until, god forbid, you appear to enjoy taking them. Then you better detox in a corner and deal with your pain some other way.  The rest of the world is moving beyond this nonsense. Prohibition is a scapegoat for seriously entrenched social and economic problems, and to some degree a self-justified police state. No offense to the many good American people out there, but America will eventually have to face some harsh realities if it doesnt get off its high moral horse and start taking some of its own "freedom" rhetoric to heart. Most drug users are not criminals or bad people, and even if they were prohibition simply doesnt work. Any sane person with a 6th grade education can see that. And this whole bath salts thing is just the reefer madness of its day. Same old lies and hyperbole to justify a police presence that is really like 70% unnecessary. America used to have a healthy appetite for pragmatism and forward thinking. Gone are the days.

 

[Ed!]

I think a lot of the "puritanical" stances are more about money than morality. Very few people know or care about online gambling, but it's illegal because it jeopardizes the tax dollar cash-cow that brick and mortar casinos are.

 

[kl.icky]

Combining the two is something personally I wouldn't do. So far every strain of K@ I've tried has either left me with nausea, ranging from tolerable to intolerable. And projectile vomiting.

Sigh, maybe one day I'll find a strain that agrees with me :/