Kava bar permit denied by city council.

[Ricardo Piquant]

Well there should be more libertarian elements in everything. In other words, people need to be of the mindset that a new law - and I mean ANY new law about ANYTHING - will always lessen our freedom and liberty by definition. I maintain that the notion of a true federal republic as our country was originally set up is still a revolutionary idea. I'll go a step further and say most people today are afraid of true liberty and would be more comfortable living under a king. For you see, with a truly free society with minimal laws we must be ready to take full responsibility for our actions and not expect someone else to pay for it. With a king (or an all powerful state) the choices are removed, and so people never have to be faced with taking responsibility for certain choices that would otherwise be available. Did you ever notice there never is a debate concerning how any proposed law would affect our liberties? We might as well cut our constitution into squares and use it as toilet paper, because that is where we're headed.

So back on topic. Where does an unelected bunch of bureaucrats in the DEA get constitutional authority to effectively create a new law by unilaterally banning kava or anything else? According to our constitution, all federal laws should originate in the US Congress.

I respect your views on that. .. but reality is reality. If you don't show respect to these local government officials, or think they are "stupid" , they will fuk u up and they will do it well. They're not as dumb as some people think

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Sorry, but that feels like an endorsement of power just because it is.... well, power.

 

[Groggy]

Sorry, but that feels like an endorsement of power just because it is.... well, power.

Curious, what do you mean by that?

 

[Kojo Douglas]

The need to feel like you have to respect authority for authority's sake. Power is not traditionally/historically deployed for good reasons

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Then again, I might have jumped into this conversation at an inopportune time.

 

[Groggy]

The need to feel like you have to respect authority for authority's sake. Power is not traditionally/historically deployed for good reasons

That's a broad statement, I understand your point, but order is necessary, specially in this context.

 

[Groggy]

Then again, I might have jumped into this conversation at an inopportune time.

Nah, I was just curious

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Well, it's not really all that broad. There are no laws being explicitly violated by The Nak. Some people don't like the association of Kava with K@, including myself, but by itself that is not enough to attack the Nak on. And it doesn't appear that this city council is concerned with one or the other. They just don't want "strange new things" in their community.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Somebody having the authority to "fuk you up" isn't a good rationale though, surely? That's all about the wrong kind of power. It's nice when it's on your side, but pretty oppressive when it's not.

 

[Groggy]

Well, it's not really all that broad. There are no laws being explicitly violated by The Nak. Some people don't like the association of Kava with K@, including myself, but by itself that is not enough to attack the Nak on. And it doesn't appear that this city council is concerned with one or the other. They just don't want "strange new things" in their community.

Sorry but did you read the original post? It is quite clear that the "nak" withheld information from the city council. Regardless, why does K@ need to even be associated with kava? Do you not see the danger in these things?
Forget power, the kava community is at stake here, the more negative attention kava gets in association with k@, the worst off the rest of us are. whether you or anyone else drinks it, that's fine, I respect the choice and freedom to do so. But to say they did nothing wrong is a long stretch.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

I see a danger in Krat being associated with Kava, yes. But that's not why the Nak got their permit challenged, or am I missing something?

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Yes, I did read the original post. Seems like (@Kapmcrunk ) it was more of a way of starting a discussion rather than an opinion. Kava bars that serve K@ should definitely take note. I have never even tried the stuff.

 

[Groggy]

Yes, I did read the original post. Seems like (@Kapmcrunk ) it was more of a way of starting a discussion rather than an opinion. Kava bars that serve K@ should definitely take note. I have never even tried the stuff.

Yes that was the intent but also to illustrate how K@ is affecting us as a community. We are all smart enough here to draw our own conclusions from the pdf. K@ and kava are nothing alike, so is it about the bottom line? Would kava bars survive without selling k@?

I honestly don't know the answer to the last question. Let's "assume" that vendors get into the business for their love of kava, the culture, etc. Why taint an already fragile perception of kava with another plant that is clearly addictive? I would think kava vendors would be concerned about the example they set forth, at least that would be my pov if I were a kava vendor. We don't see GHK, KWK, Kavafied, Squanch, to name a few, selling k@.

So I really wonder, is it about the bottom line? Because there seems to be no other reason for promoting this in a KAVA bar setting.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

I would remind everyone that running a Kava bar and running an online Kava business are two separate things. Does that make selling Krat at a Kava bar acceptable? I suppose that's the debate.

 

[Groggy]

I would remind everyone that running a Kava bar and running an online Kava business are two separate things. Does that make selling Krat at a Kava bar acceptable? I suppose that's the debate.

Yes I agree, an online business is a lot cheaper to run and maintain.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

Let's "assume" that vendors get into the business for their love of kava, the culture, etc. Why taint an already fragile perception of kava with another plant that is clearly addictive? I would think kava vendors would be concerned about the example they set forth, at least that would be my pov if I were a kava vendor. We don't see GHK, KWK, Kavafied, Squanch, to name a few, selling k@..

I am in the business for the love of kava and I know that we need to keep kava as far away from K****m, I have nothing against K*****M but I know it has no place with kava and it will only hurt the good reputation that kava has. If K****M goes down I do not want kava to go with it not do I want any neg. publicity due to kava bars selling this K****M along with kava. A kava bar is just that, a kava bar.
Aloha.

Chris

 

[verticity]

Per @Deleted User, I guess we could also call that Kava Bar owner a "knucklehead". And perhaps deep down inside he was keeping his options open to sell K@. There is a movement among a small gang of Kava Bars to start selling K@ and some are already doing it. If you were a 100 percent Kava guy, you would stand up and tell the regulators that and you wouldn't be hemming and hawing. So maybe this isn't a story about K@ but rather a story about ill advised Kava Bars who are not 100 percent committed to Kava.

I only know of a single kava bar (Melo Melo in Berkeley) in the US that does not sell K@. If anyone knows of a second one please tell me. But it's not a "small gang" of kava bars, it's almost all of them.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

I wasn't aware that it's illegal to sell Krat for human consumption. Interesting...

 

[verticity]

I wasn't aware that it's illegal to sell Krat for human consumption. Interesting...

There are some people planning to open a new "Kava bar" in Denver. They already have one in Florida, which (I guess to their credit) is accurately named an "Ethnobotanical Tea Bar" instead of a "kava bar". On their website, which I won't link to, it says the following:

"K@ is recognized by the FDA for consumption but not approved as a dietary supplement. It has been consumed for hundreds of years in other countries and there are no known deaths or overdoses from K@ to date. Please understand that by consuming this tea you are drinking a leaf that isn't recognized as a supplement."
​

I have no idea what that means. "Recognized by the FDA for consumption but not approved as a dietary supplement"??? Which begs the question, what exactly is it recognized as?

 

[yiki]