Kava seems to make my neck spasm worse

[Erich]

I had a back injury about a month ago, and most of the symptoms are upper back and neck even though it seemed to begin with a very slight twinge in my low back upon reaching down to pick up a gallon jug. Long story short after some chiropractic adjustments, I seem to be worse. One prominent symptom is extreme muscle tightness across my upper shoulders, for many hours so intense that my neck feels extremely forward and I can't straighten up my neck without worry that I might do something dangerous.

Anyway to get to the Kava portion of the story, I thought what I need is something that will calm my nerves and I learned about Kava, so I got some micronized powder and tried it a few times, but every time I tried it that forward feeling in my neck got noticeably worse -- not better. Does anybody here know why that would be? It would be nice if that is a temporary symptom that will go away if I keep taking the Kava, but I'd like to be sure of that.

Thanks

 

[avahZ]

Yeah it sounds like more damage than a chiropractor can adjust. Kava works wonders on my spasm, but potential joint/nerve damage needs to be looked at by a specialist.

 

[Erich]

Yeah it sounds like more damage than a chiropractor can adjust. Kava works wonders on my spasm, but potential joint/nerve damage needs to be looked at by a specialist.

Even so, I wonder why Kava would have that effect on me? You'd think it would be either no effect, or mild soothing, not paradoxical worsening.

 

[kw2292]

Even so, I wonder why Kava would have that effect on me? You'd think it would be either no effect, or mild soothing, not paradoxical worsening.

What type of micronized? There’s a lot going on within the broad spectrums of kava. I know it’s marketed as just a relaxing plant but there’s a lot going on in that mud water. With many cultivars having different ratios of the active ingredients.

 

[Erich]

What type of micronized? There’s a lot going on within the broad spectrums of kava. I know it’s marketed as just a relaxing plant but there’s a lot going on in that mud water. With many cultivars having different ratios of the active ingredients.

This is the brand I purchased. Seems pretty frustrating that one buys Kava but the product is so complex one can't be sure one is buying it? Jeez Louise.
I still wonder if Kava itself -- assuming the product is Kava and not a million other things added in -- can induce paradoxical muscles spasms. If someone could just tell me "no Kava cannot do that" then I would KNOW what I bought isn't pure.
Here's a screenshot

 

[Groggy]

This is the brand I purchased. Seems pretty frustrating that one buys Kava but the product is so complex one can't be sure one is buying it? Jeez Louise.
I still wonder if Kava itself -- assuming the product is Kava and not a million other things added in -- can induce paradoxical muscles spasms. If someone could just tell me "no Kava cannot do that" then I would KNOW what I bought isn't pure.
Here's a screenshot
View attachment 12862

A good rule of thumb is buy kava from vendors we support/promote, there is a ton of choices the kava above is not one of them.



I can't speak to your problem except to say kava is not for everybody.

 

[yestothat]

Erich, I'm sorry about your neck spasms. I've consumed kava for 10+ years and have found the effects and strength varying significantly from one producer to the next. The key to achieving a predictable effect each time is finding a company that you trust and using the same product, measurement and method for each session. My goal is restful sleep, and I have a routine that predictably gets me to a deep REM.

When I start a kava session with a tense neck or headache, the tension often intensifies, unless I consciously address it with tension release exercises. Kava makes me hyper sensitive to sounds, sensations on the skin, smells. Is hasn't caused me to experience involuntary muscle spasms though.

 

[Erich]

Erich, I'm sorry about your neck spasms. I've consumed kava for 10+ years and have found the effects and strength varying significantly from one producer to the next. The key to achieving a predictable effect each time is finding a company that you trust and using the same product, measurement and method for each session. My goal is restful sleep, and I have a routine that predictably gets me to a deep REM.

When I start a kava session with a tense neck or headache, the tension often intensifies, unless I consciously address it with tension release exercises. Kava makes me hyper sensitive to sounds, sensations on the skin, smells. Is hasn't caused me to experience involuntary muscle spasms though.

Thanks. Interesting effects. I tried K@ also, and I had the same problem. It seems there are products like marijuana, K@, and Kava which all do produce a sense of well being, but that well being is somehow tied to an uptick of something neural perhaps, like an upper, even though it's supposed to be calming, it's calming because it makes you feel good, not the other way around. What I need is a substance that has the effect of VALIUM -- primarily calming.

 

[Erich]

A good rule of thumb is buy kava from vendors we support/promote, there is a ton of choices the kava above is not one of them.



I can't speak to your problem except to say kava is not for everybody.

I don't have the luxury of buying different types of Kava only to find out I wasted $50 a pop how many times.

 

[Manga Ono Kava]

Erich,
I'm sorry that your experience has been long and painful one in trying to find a solution to help with your muscle spasms. I feel you should maybe look into trying a medium grind Kava instead of going micronized. I have a cousin who broke his back in a construction injury and was pretty much paralyzed from the waist down. There was pretty much nothing else medically that could be done, and he didn't want to be dependent on pain killers. He was offered Kava pills from his doctor to help with trying with relaxing the affected area. Instead of taking the pills he started drinking kava with his father. Long story short, believe it or not the kava improved his condition to where he was mobile and walking. He still has bad days, but the kava has really improved his situation. Everybody is different and have different experiences. I hope you find yours. Best of luck.

 

[PapaCthulu]

I don't have the luxury of buying different types of Kava only to find out I wasted $50 a pop how many times.

Honestly, the recommended vendors on this forum sell some pretty potent stuff. When I started drinking kava, I used a bunch of crappy vendors on Amazon. I've worked through a couple of the recommended vendor's product list and most their products are absolutely magical.

 

[kw2292]

Thanks. Interesting effects. I tried K@ also, and I had the same problem. It seems there are products like marijuana, K@, and Kava which all do produce a sense of well being, but that well being is somehow tied to an uptick of something neural perhaps, like an upper, even though it's supposed to be calming, it's calming because it makes you feel good, not the other way around. What I need is a substance that has the effect of VALIUM -- primarily calming.

A few herbal supplements that more closely feel like a weak benzo to me than kava does are Magnolia Bark extract, baicalin (skullcap), and mulungu bark. Maybe valerian root but it can also have an opposite reaction in a small portion of the population.

Overall though there’s a reason Valium is prescription drug and there’s really nothing botanical wise that truly hits the same every time. I’ve surely used things medicinally in the past so I understand your frustration. Hope you find relief in kava or otherwise.

 

[Erich]

A good rule of thumb is buy kava from vendors we support/promote, there is a ton of choices the kava above is not one of them.



I can't speak to your problem except to say kava is not for everybody.

Where do I go on this forum to order some kava?

I saw the full list of varieties, and there are so many it's bewildering. Which one in your estimation is the most sedative? One that makes you wanna take a nap in a hammock.

 

[Erich]

A few herbal supplements that more closely feel like a weak benzo to me than kava does are Magnolia Bark extract, baicalin (skullcap), and mulungu bark. Maybe valerian root but it can also have an opposite reaction in a small portion of the population.

Overall though there’s a reason Valium is prescription drug and there’s really nothing botanical wise that truly hits the same every time. I’ve surely used things medicinally in the past so I understand your frustration. Hope you find relief in kava or otherwise.

I go to Amazon to find Magnolia bark extract, and find one that has this description: "
Magnolia Bark Extract 300 mg Per Day - Powerful Antioxidant - Stress Relief & Emotional Boost

That last one is suspicious -- "emotional boost" -- indicating it might have that same paradoxical effect on my spasms all these other supposedly "calming" substances have.

 

[Erich]

possibly ditto for skullcap:

"Similar to benzodiazepines, such as Valium or Xanax, Skullcap acts on receptors for GABA. However, with Skullcap there is no sedative effect. "

No sedative effect?

 

[Orz[EST]]

Try TENS electrotherapy.

 

[Orz[EST]]

I overstretched my neck, it hurt sufficiently to not flex my head to right not one degree. I walked with slightly tilted head. Pain upon tklting head was 7/10

After TENS the pain reduced to mild pain that did not discourage movement. I walked with head in neutral position after that. Pain was 3/10

 

[Jack3]

I had a back injury about a month ago, and most of the symptoms are upper back and neck even though it seemed to begin with a very slight twinge in my low back upon reaching down to pick up a gallon jug. Long story short after some chiropractic adjustments, I seem to be worse. One prominent symptom is extreme muscle tightness across my upper shoulders, for many hours so intense that my neck feels extremely forward and I can't straighten up my neck without worry that I might do something dangerous.

Anyway to get to the Kava portion of the story, I thought what I need is something that will calm my nerves and I learned about Kava, so I got some micronized powder and tried it a few times, but every time I tried it that forward feeling in my neck got noticeably worse -- not better. Does anybody here know why that would be? It would be nice if that is a temporary symptom that will go away if I keep taking the Kava, but I'd like to be sure of that.

Thanks

There is a dizzying array of diversity in how different individuals respond to the same medicine. Bioindividuality is a term I’ve been hearing lately.

Some thing also have effects that are called bidirectional. Certain doses produce improvement while other doses make things worse. Cannabis, for instance, is generally anti-emetic but occasionally people end up with hyperemesis.

Personally, I find that cultivars with a chemotype that features DHM in the second or third position, I.e., Santo Palasa by Kalm with Kava, or the Papua New Guinea Isa from Kava Depot or Root of Happiness seem to have some benefit for the spasticity I live with.

Overall, I find a 1:1:1 CBD:CBG:THC full extract cannabis tincture in fractionated coconut oil gets better results with fewer side effects than anything else I’ve tried so far. Haven’t tried magnolia bark, though.

 

[Erich]

There is a dizzying array of diversity in how different individuals respond to the same medicine. Bioindividuality is a term I’ve been hearing lately.

Some thing also have effects that are called bidirectional. Certain doses produce improvement while other doses make things worse. Cannabis, for instance, is generally anti-emetic but occasionally people end up with hyperemesis.

Personally, I find that cultivars with a chemotype that features DHM in the second or third position, I.e., Santo Palasa by Kalm with Kava, or the Papua New Guinea Isa from Kava Depot or Root of Happiness seem to have some benefit for the spasticity I live with.

Overall, I find a 1:1:1 CBD:CBG:THC full extract cannabis tincture in fractionated coconut oil gets better results with fewer side effects than anything else I’ve tried so far. Haven’t tried magnolia bark, though.

Where can I get "1:1:1 CBD:CBG:THC full extract cannabis tincture in fractionated coconut oil " ?

How would you describe your spasticity?

 

[Orz[EST]]

Magnolia bark is not psychoactive (I did not *feel* anything), and its primary supposed aplications are cortisol-lowering effect, polyphenol antioxidant and an in vivo unconfirmed bone strengthening. Yes it has GABA related effects but I do not know much about their subunit specific effects.