kava temperature to increase strength?

[mos3z]

So I made the strongest batch of boroguru ive ever had last night, so much so that it depressed my breathing to the point that it was uncomfortably slow.I've had kava slow my breathing before, but never this strong, I didnt need to run to the doctors or anything but it wasnt pleasant.
So I've trying to think why this batch was so different. I took it on a completely empty stomach which i always do, but I kneaded it sooner than i usually do and drank it while it was warm/hotI usually add 1cup of room temp water to 1cup of boiling water and mix with 1cup root. But i usually end up letting it soak over an hour. This time i kneaded it exactly 30 min later, the water was still very warm. There was a crazy amount of yellow resin that came out, a lot more than usual. This was the old coarse ground boroguru btw.
So I'm wondering 2 things, either the fact that I kneaded it while it was still hot allowed more resin to be released? Or I'm also wondering if drinking it while it was hot allowed the resins to be more easily absorbed? Does that sound possible?I know that the resins melt at hot temperatures so maybe if they were already melted then your body can absorb them more?or maybe i drank too much kava as I am typing this and am thinking too much

 

[krunkedout]

Kavalactones break down at high temperatures which means thy cant survive past a certain point. Before that point, though, it's most certainly possible, and probable that the increased temperature softened them up a bit.

 

[kl.TylerKTB]

A research team found that boiling kava for 10 minutes only destroyed 9.X% of the Kavalactones as detectable by HPLC.  Another found a 5% loss after 5 minutes.  The fact that heat destroys kavalactones is true, but the extent to which it affects potency is exaggerated.  In my opinion, the heat actually helps to extract more Kavalactones than it destroys, resulting in a much more potent grog.  Say you're below boiling and lose 5% due to a 15 minute exposure to 160 degree water but you extract 20% more Kavalactones.  Its a win for potency.  Not for taste though.  You might get more of the actives out with hot water but it sure pulls a lot of the other components of the root out along with the actives.

 

[krunkedout]

A research team found that boiling kava for 10 minutes only destroyed 9.X% of the Kavalactones as detectable by HPLC. Another found a 5% loss after 5 minutes. The fact that heat destroys kavalactones is true, but the extent to which it affects potency is exaggerated. In my opinion, the heat actually helps to extract more Kavalactones than it destroys, resulting in a much more potent grog. Say you're below boiling and lose 5% due to a 15 minute exposure to 160 degree water but you extract 20% more Kavalactones. Its a win for potency. Not for taste though. You might get more of the actives out with hot water but it sure pulls a lot of the other components of the root out along with the actives.

true. And the taste is nearly unbearable to me when the water is hot or warm so I make mine with Luke warm water

 

[kl.ImSoCold2323]

A research team found that boiling kava for 10 minutes only destroyed 9.X% of the Kavalactones as detectable by HPLC.  Another found a 5% loss after 5 minutes.  The fact that heat destroys kavalactones is true, but the extent to which it affects potency is exaggerated.  In my opinion, the heat actually helps to extract more Kavalactones than it destroys, resulting in a much more potent grog.  Say you're below boiling and lose 5% due to a 15 minute exposure to 160 degree water but you extract 20% more Kavalactones.  Its a win for potency.  Not for taste though.  You might get more of the actives out with hot water but it sure pulls a lot of the other components of the root out along with the actives.

I was looking for some info on this earlier.  I remember reading that the effects of hot water were generally exaggerated, but I couldn't find any of the details.  Thanks.Personally, the taste of a hot extraction never bothered me...  Well, relative to the taste of kava anyways...
But now I'm a bit curious about mos3z's other question:  does the temperature of the kava while you're drinking it make a difference?I kind of doubt it does, but it's a question I've never heard raised before.I almost always drink it warm.  At first it was because I didn't want to wait until it cooled down, but I've grown to hate drinking it cold.

 

[Ed!]

Interesting. I may need to mix up my process to see if I have similar experiences.



I may also have to try some hot hot water on some of my second-use root. See if that can pull something out that I wasn't able to get to with the first go.

 

[kl.bubullovitch]

hello

i use kava regulary (daily or 5 day a week) for two years now and first try it 5 years ago but essentialy with extracts kaviar or kava paste ( it think the effect wasn't good especially 30 mn 1hour after ingestion ) plain root are much better (but i don't know the new extracts)

with a lot of trial and error i obtain my best results with boiling kava for 10 min or so , sometimes hard boiling for 2 mn (i stop when it react like milk, ) sometimes low for 10mn

i strain with a kitchen strainer and i re use the roots 1 or 2 times or more (mater of variety or if i want a very soft drink

i have the best effects with this system

at moments i have dermopathy and i just lower my intake but no necessary skip some days of use

i'm a just a little more concern with the finer grinds now because i ingest more powder now and i think i'm a little more sensible to dermopathy , so i manage to strain differently

i'm sure fore potency boiling is good ( but perhaps not very good for the body ?)

i think i need to rework on traditional method for compare

kava is fabulous for me , really i manage a long history of drugs abuse and kava helped me a lot to cut back , help my anxiety my depression , it can be really fun or just a little help (big help for me)

i don't over abuse it and it's not because i'm wise it's just the nature of the substance prevent it

if only i had try it before failling in benzo and opiates

the big pharma who sell benzo (here in france it's really a big deal ) are criminal a lot of people (i think the majority of benzo user) could live with kava

no mention of the alcool problem

dark days they want to stole us all the medecinal herbs for money , i'm really afraid by the loss of our last liberties and the libertie of using the plants is really a big big one

certainly the scientific medical progress are really good things but they are not used for really save the peoples......and day after day it's worst (here in france the so called country of human rights it's very very clear...no matter what president ....i live in a country who slowly "hurt " the immense majority of peoples)

sorry for the disgression perhaps i'm in combative mood this morning

kava is wonderful and i just like to know if boiling it could harm the body in a long run (because after 2 years i'm in better shape than the last 15 years) but for the potency it's really effective

i really love this forum it's an addictive pleasure to read it

best regards

 

[kl.bubullovitch]

please ...excuse me for my english

thanks a lot

 

[mos3z]

Welcome bubullovitch,

I haven't heard of anyone actually boiling kava before, that's interesting.

But I guess I would also wonder if it extracts any negative effects also?

I don't know if there is any info on that since people try to stay away from the hotter temperatures.



I just tried mixing and drinking hot again (not boiling) and it worked very well.

I would imagine if you keep it under 118 degrees then it shouldn't kill the kavalactones since that is the temp raw foodists out here go by for killing enzymes in raw foods, not sure if that's a valid idea, just my thought.

 

[kl.bubullovitch]

hi

i've found this

http://www.kava.com/?p=480



i will retry traditionnal use perhaps the effect are different..and ar try for keep the temp under 118 (it's a bit tricky with my vintage kitchen lol) .ididn't really notice change between 5mn hard boil or 15mn very soft boil

usually when i re use the root for a second or third washing i go for a longer boil but never more than 15mn

the kava boil over very easily like the milk

i find the potency great and it's fast....the most times i just stop the boil when kava is ready o boil over





about the extract the old extract like kaviar or kava paste 84% gave me a nice start but after 1h or so they left me edgy....and i was more prone to dermopaty too)

i have not really this problem with plain roots ....it sometimes give me edgy but not the way the extract was

the plain root give me some "spiritual help" but the extracts did not that (but perhaps it's a period in my life)

 

[kl.bubullovitch]

and for taste i just add a little amount of lemon juice

i find it really easy to drink if it's too thick i just add water

 

[Ed!]

I'm going to work some hotter water into my routine and see if that changes things as well. I used hot (not boiling) water for kneading last night and I will say that there was definitely one benefit... my strainer tends to get gummed up with resin after a while, and that just melted it right off into my kava... num.

 

[The Kap'n]

I use 120 degree water. With a 1000-1100 watt microwave 1 3/4 cups of water will heat to 120 in 70 seconds. Then soak for 30 minutes or in my case I now stir in the water and toss it into the vacuum chamber to pull the water INTO the root. Seems to work just as well as soaking for 30 minutes. I've used this religiously since I started. It makes sense that a lactone, which is an oily substance, will more easily dissolve into a warmer solution. You can't put butter on a cold baked potato and expect it to melt right in. I believe the same principal applies.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I've had good, bad and neutral experiences with all varying water temperatures...but i remember going to an 'awa bar in hawai'i (hale noa) and heard them say the used really hot water for the extraction.

 

[kavadude]

For me personally I have found that cold or room temp water is the best. Hot water I find tends to make it a lot "spicier" without really improving the potency. I would recommend everybody experiment though!

 

[krunkedout]

Tonight I am doing what I always though blasphemous... I am using warm water, and I am absolutely dreading the taste but highly anticipating being krunk whilst watching "waking life". Time to open a pack of kava candy

 

[kavalover]

Tonight I am doing what I always though blasphemous... I am using warm water, and I am absolutely dreading the taste but highly anticipating being krunk whilst watching "waking life". Time to open a pack of kava candy

Ugh, HOW U DO THAT? lol. Whenever I use warm water, I'll prep with warm water and then add ice cubes in order to chill it. I can not drink warm kava (smiley: sick)

 

[Ed!]

I'm thinking there is an appreciable difference with hot water. I had a cup of kava to around 4 cups of water two nights ago, going with a traditional prep method (Chief's Jungle / Melo Melo mix). Last night I took the used kava powder from that, blended it with some heated water, and then poured nearly boiling water into it. I pressed that around with a wide spoon with holes until the water cooled enough that I could use my hands.



Usually with my second batches I can see how the water is less muddied, but not this time. It got muddy quickly, and I was even using more water than the previous night. It was strong too. I may have gotten a boost in effect because of all the prior kava drinking I've done in the last few days (and a smidge that morning), but it felt as strong if not stronger than the first use. I was surprised.



I'm definitely going to have to try that again. I'm even keeping the kava powder to give it a third try with hot water, see if I can get even more out of it.

 

[kl.Redfox]

Sorry, I dont use the traditional preparation ... I do it only with a blender and afterwards kneading the brew through a (fine) cotton tea strainer.

Depending on how fine the powder is, I first blend the brew with speed II for about 20 to 30 minutes. During the blending the brew heats up to about 50-60 °C. If it becomes too fast too hot, I set it to speed I. Then I let it cool down for about 30-40 minutes or more and then blend it again for 3 minutes with speed II - 3 minutes pause - then blending it with speed II or I for another 3 minutes - pause - 3 minutes blending with speed II/I. Afterwards I let it cool down for a longer while because it might be still too hot for kneading it part by part through the tea strainer.

This is what I have sort out to be the best method for me after experimenting a few months. Compared with a not so heating method (e.g. slower blending for long/short time), with the temp of about 50-60 °C of the brew in the blender I got the best results in strength.

btw: before drinking I cool it down to room temp or a bit lower ... (smiley: smile)

 

[Ed!]

I made a third batch with the same kava powder, which is the first time I've ever tried three sessions on the same root. I used the same hot-water technique as the second batch that went so well. This brew strength was significantly depreciated, and the water significantly less foggy... but, it actually wasn't too bad in terms of effect. It was about where my second batches tend to be, and that's saying something because my second batches have traditionally been gathered from a few first-session batches.



So really great results so far. I think I'm going to keep my tradition for first time use, and then work in the hot-hot water for a second and third use. I feel like I maxed out my kava powder that way, and keep a fairly consistent experience.