Kava/water ratio, does it matter?

[Dr.Krunk]

I believe I have posted a similar thread in the past but did not seem to get much of an opinion on this specific subject. Let me attempt to convey what exactly I mean.

I'm one that tends to mix my grog especially strong. Is there a point during prep where you get too many kavalactones extracted where further working of the root will not heed any further results wilthout using fresh water/second wash?

 

[The Kap'n]

I believe I have posted a similar thread in the past but did not seem to get much of an opinion on this specific subject. Let me attempt to convey what exactly I mean.

I'm one that tends to mix my grog especially strong. Is there a point that during prep that you get too many kavalactones extracted where further working of the root will not heed any further results wilthout using fresh water/second wash?

I've wondered this myself for quite a long time. My intuition says we're probably reaching a certain percentage and then (if you're not doing a 2nd wash) throwing them away. I'm guilty of this.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I believe I have posted a similar thread in the past but did not seem to get much of an opinion on this specific subject. Let me attempt to convey what exactly I mean.

I'm one that tends to mix my grog especially strong. Is there a point that during prep that you get too many kavalactones extracted where further working of the root will not heed any further results wilthout using fresh water/second wash?

I definitely think so.

I wouldn't say "too many" but I think you reach a point where you have extracted as much as you are going to extract with that wash, and so you proceed to the next.

You would think, theoretically, that if I am doing three washes with a half cup of root and a litre of water with a total of 30 minutes of kneading over three washes that it would be simpler just to start with a litre and knead for 30 minutes and then chuck the makas, one big long wash rather than three smaller ones. I don't think it works that way, though. One thing I will do, if I feel like it, though, is mix the results of the three washes into a single jar and then shake it all up together. But I do the separate washes. But sometimes I also like the differences between first second and third washes, and fourth where appropriate.

IAE, there is no prep we know of that will even in the best case scenario get more than 35% of the kavalactones out of that root. OTOH, I think doing just one quick perfunctory wash will only net you about 15% of the kavalactones. So it's a question of how much you prefer to leave in the compost pile. 65% of the kavalactones or 85%, or something in between.

 

[Dr.Krunk]

Well at least it sounds like you guys understand what I was trying to say. Like most I have my own method that works for me, but always tweaking the recipe. Wasn't sure if there have actually been any sort of studies on whether there is a max amount/percentage of kavalactones water can hold.

I enjoy the subtle effects of kava but tend to stick to Krunk doses lol. It takes quite a bit for me to get the effects I'm after generally. The only time I feel nauseous from Kava is when consuming too much liquids. My batches would probably make most gag but I'm used to it. It's easier for me that way but than begs the question, how much root could I possibly be wasting?

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Well at least it sounds like you guys understand what I was trying to say. Like most I have my own method that works for me, but always tweaking the recipe. Wasn't sure if there have actually been any sort of studies on whether there is a max amount/percentage of kavalactones water can hold.

I enjoy the subtle effects of kava but tend to stick to Krunk doses lol. It takes quite a bit for me to get the effects I'm after generally. The only time I feel nauseous from Kava is when consuming too much liquids. My batches would probably make most gag but I'm used to it. It's easier for me that way but than begs the question, how much root could I possibly be wasting?

well, if you can never get at it for love or money, that 65%, then it's not "wasted" per se, it was never on the table in the first place. Better to just pretend it never existed.

As a rule of thumb, if you only do one wash you are probably only getting 40 - 50% of what you could have gotten depending on variety and grind.

I also find less water = more krunk. For my krunk prep, I use 4 TBS to 2/3 cup liquid. That's the lowest volume of liquid I can do and still get it down.

 

[Dr.Krunk]

well, if you can never get at it for love or money, that 65%, then it's not "wasted" per se, it was never on the table in the first place. Better to just pretend it never existed.

As a rule of thumb, if you only do one wash you are probably only getting 40 - 50% of what you could have gotten depending on variety and grind.

I also find less water = more krunk. For my krunk prep, I use 4 TBS to 2/3 cup liquid. That's the lowest volume of liquid I can do and still get it down.

I'm not necessarily referring to parts that cannot be extracted through traditional prep.

I'm simply questioning whether a grog can have such a high kavalactone level already, that even by adding fresh root and continuing prep if it will not achieve a stronger KL% level. I would think that it would continue to get stronger but I wonder if the percentage of Kavalactones being extracted would be diminished by having an already strong solution.

Which makes me wonder if too little water is used, can you possibly be wasting root? Obviously using less water may require longer preparation, but I'm not sure if there's point that the water won't accept more kavalactones.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I'm not necessarily referring to parts that cannot be extracted through traditional prep.

I'm simply questioning whether a grog can have such a high kavalactone level already, that even by adding fresh root and continuing prep if it will not achieve a stronger KL% level. I would think that it would continue to get stronger but I wonder if the percentage of Kavalactones being extracted would be diminished by having an already strong solution.

Which makes me wonder if too little water is used, can you possibly be wasting root? Obviously using less water may require longer preparation, but I'm not sure if there's point that the water won't accept more kavalactones.

good question

 

[lonnyzone]

I don't know about how much water can hold how many Kavalactones, but I would assume that prepping with a smaller amount of water, to some extent, shortens and intensifies the effects because they hit your system more quickly that way. Kind of like how Espresso generally has slightly less caffeine than a cup of coffee, but it all gets to your brain so quickly that it feels noticeably more intense and doesn't last for as long (in my experience, at least).
Dr.Krunk, just out of curiosity, how do you typically prep?

 

[Sandpit]

Well, water is only going to be so soluble. Just like with any other drink mixture, there's a point where your water is going to become so saturated that it will not accept any more. When you heat water it becomes "super soluble" and the same amount of water can absorb more. So there's definitely a saturation point where you simply will not be able to get the water to absoeb any more of your ingredients no matter how granulated, kneaded, etc.

I'm a complete noob with Kava at this point so I don't know all of the chemical tolerances before you reach breakdowns and unknown chemical reactions, but based on what I've seen, you're only going to get so much into xx amount of water because you cannot heat the water past a certain point which means you can't make it super soluble. I don't know what the chemical numbers would be but I can definitely tell you without a doubt that there's only so much of the Kava that's going be absorb into the water unless you add more water.