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Live and let live


Kava Enthusiast
Krunkedout said:
Ahh finally good and krunk! As far as what our supreme over-lord, Doug has said: I do. Find that it is a bit... What's the word... Biased? The idea that noone confronts religion is complete bull. Yes you don't have people storming against the Vatican, but you have people everywhere who will say the pope is a fool in the blink of an eye. However, I respect the view point, as it gives me a new lense to look at things through. I personally am a Christian, but when I was just a lad I started having some serious doubts, and I began to wonder if god was real at all; this began my journey. During that time I had an open mind to other religions because I thought that I should look at other religions to see if they make more sense. I found usefull things in the bhagavad Gita, the Koran was just plain boring, atheism required to much faith... Eventually I began to look at the historical side of it, and began to see that we are finding more and more evidence for different biblical sites and whatnot; and then I noticed that it SEEMED as though other religions had taken parts of Judaism and Christianity and sort of stitched it into their own. In the end I was a Christian again. However, I'm not your normal Christian, I actually know some people that would probably argue that I was never "really" saved in the first place. I consider myself a scientific lad, and new scientific discoveries excite me. Some folks take these discoveries and say "see! The earth really is old!" and my honest response is "so what if it is? God is all powerful, he could have made the earth whenever he wanted." and other folks like to say "see the big bang really did happen! Look at all the evidence!" and this poses no problem to me because I think "hey, god can make the world however he wants to! If he wanted to make it by using the big bang, I think he could have." to me, it makes sense that god works in a scientific way, since we live in a scientific universe. I mean, god would have created science, right? It makes no difference to me how old the earth is (although I lean towards the old earth idea) and it makes no difference weather the big bang happened or not. I also don't believe certain things are sinful that most Christians believe. For example, I think it's perfectly fine to catch a buzz as long as your not so drunk that you do things you wouldn't normally do. I mean hey, the bible says that god made wine to make the hearts of men merry! I think that "buzz" concept applies not only to alcohol, but to things like cannabis, kava, and whatever else. I also don't like to judge others because I believe someday I will be judged. I think we are all in the same boat, just a bunch of sinners that are all equal. To me it's like, oh you're gay? Great for you! Oh you want to be able to get married? Hey it's your life do what you want! Even if I don't agree with something, it's not my place to judge or tell someone how to live. But how this all relates to kava is the part I like. I feel like I get a special satisfaction from kava because I can honestly thank the lord for putting it in my life and for putting it on earth in general! And the thought of kava being a special gift, makes it all that much more enjoyable! I feel that it helps me to enjoy life more :) I believe tht someday (maybe even after the earth has ended) we will see the science behind god. There are so many things that we don't understand; I mean, what IS energy? What is in between the two positive charges that cause the two ends of a molecule repel each other? We're just scratching the surface in the quantum world as well as the astronomical physics and theoretical physics world. So many people chuckle when someone talks about their "god" or their "soul" and things like that; but to me, it makes sense that god and the soul and very thing else that is "paranormal" isn't hocus pocus or some kind of magic, it's a valid scientific 'thing' or event that we can't fully understand now. I think that heaven is most likely another realm with different physical laws then our own. I think that the soul is most likely some type of energy that makes up our "mind". I firmly believe in astral projection and dream telepathy because I mean, if we can make a computer with wifi that can connect to the web with millions of other people, couldn't our brains, the most advanced computer, do something similar? Just like how our computers can store Info in the cloud, and that info still exists after the computer is destroyed, couldn't the info for our "soul" be stored somewhere and still exist after our bodies die? Just the thoughts of a rambling krunk man lol
Pretty much all of that I could have said myself. It seems we're pretty like-minded.


Kava Enthusiast
I think the fact that the Pope exists, is the reason people will call him a fool. Any time you have a verified leader, he will be vilified. Nevermind that there are 1.2 billion Catholics on this planet. The protestant movement was a cleavage from the church founded by Jesus Christ, largely for political reasons. So even within Christianity, there is dissention.

I think when you set up belief systems that proclaim, "If you are not one of us, you are going to hell," you are bound to spur hatred. The interesting thing is that this is not the Catholic view:


My overall view about religion can be boiled down to the fact that it provides a pretty good model for living one's life. Worst case scenario and God doesn't exist: at least I lived in a way that respected my fellows and that I and my offspring can be proud of.


Kava Curious
Well, if we are going to have the Christianity conversation...

My issue with what I view as modern Christianity is that for some of the followers I come into contact with here in the South East USA is that the religion is more of a club than a religion. People follow a very narrow set of rules, most dealing with sex, and they get to be part of the club.

If I was to walk to the nearest church and ask everyone in the congregation where in their holy books it says a person can't be gay, I am certain that I'd get plenty of references to the proper stories. But I am also sure that if I asked the same people to describe to me their interpretation of the holy trinity they would have nothing.

But then most of my friends call themselves Christian and don't give me a hard time about being neo-pagan or a gay rights believer. And the local Jehovah's Witnesses seem to really have their spiritual beliefs down. I had a really nice conversation about Christ with one of the parents of one of my students the other day; the parent was a Jehovah.

I talked this out with my Christian Dad the other day (I'm about to have a daughter and suddenly I'm faced with the reality of being partially responsible for the consciousness of another being [even more so than I am as a teacher] and I'm scared shitless) and he thinks I'm just suffering from that sociological thing where you judge groups based on how they are portrayed in the news. If I wasn't following the crunked rule I could come up with it I think. But perhaps you get the idea anyway.


Kava Enthusiast
There is a lot of negative portrayal of Christians out there that is utterly false, or very fringe, but there are without a doubt many very ignorant Christians out there. I don't think that has anything to do with the belief set so much as basic human nature. I think you'd probably find much the same thing with any belief set that has a widespread following in a large community.

There are many Catholics I know in particular who believe they are Catholic because their parents are, but then you probe them on it and they know nothing of Catholic beliefs other than the few things that seemingly prop up what they care about... they aren't even really Catholic. I think that's more prominent with Catholic families than Protestant ones because it's just a belief set that has a longer history, it's had more opportunities for people to fall away.

At the same time, I'm always shocked at the portrayal of Christians, particularly on the internet. It's so hostile. People find the most ignorant jerks on the planet and prop them up as the shining example of what that belief set is all the time. I go to church, go to bible studies, and I like to church hop, so I've been to a lot, and I've found very few Christians who are really that ignorant.

So yeah, I think there are two things going on there.

Now moar kava.


Kava Lover
I rarely find fellow believers that don't seem stuck up and think that they're somehow better than other people. It's sad just how many hypocrites are out there these days. Luckily, kava seems to attract the open-minded, non-hypocritical Christians!!

Prince Philip

Duke of Edinborogu
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Usually, this is acknowledged.  Christians have the slogan, "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven."  Satanists have the slogan, "we accept man as he is," and still have their sins and ideals of course.  Atheists are quick to point out that the scientific method and peer-review process works, and that what we believe to be the current true nature of reality is a model.  (Evolution is only a theory, as are germs, cells, gravity, atoms, etc).  Rationalists know that the mind is not evolved to be truly rational.

Thinking you have to measure up to the ideal is a recipe for disappointment.  Thinking you actually do measure up to the ideal is a recipe for pissing off everyone.