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Liver stuffs.

K

kl.kavanah

Kava Curious
It is a given that the findings of the early aughts were not properly controlled to speak to the consumption of the beverage made from kava root. However, just came across this study:

http://web.ebscohost.com/...40sessionmgr14&vid=2

It reports elevated GGT and alkaline phosphatase levels, no sign of impending liver problems. But it also didn't include anyone with present or previous liver problems. Anyone with any idea why kava might lead to those elevations, what they might mean in the long run? Also, I assume most folks on this site aren't consuming 200+ shells/month.
 
K

kl.Sub.chemtrails

Kava Curious
Thanks for the heads up. I got a laugh out of this quote; "Kava has not been shown to cause dependence, consistent withdrawal syndromes, or chronic changes in cognitive function even with heavy long-term use (3). However, reported sideeffects from excessive kava consumption include 1) lower body mass index (3)



I think thats funny because I am a hobby bodybuilder and I know of a lot of really enormous guys who drink kava on a regular basis because it makes your muscles restitute faster. There is no doubt about it. Bodybuilders are nerds of the highest order and things that "does exactly what it says on the tin" spreads like wildfire in the community.



If you go to N@H's blog there are images of local guys from whom they buy their kava. Lower body mass index is not the first thing that struck me about them.



Kava causes low BMI.......wait, what?



Taken from: http://www.nakava.com/opt...mid,201/?g2_itemId=6653/
I would eat raw liver for the rest of my life to have a build like that when my beard starts to turn grey! I could make the equally ludicris claim that they look that good because they drink kava.
 
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
As an anthropologist, I would urge you to look at the BMI of people from other subsistence societies as well. Having worked in the Solomon Islands and many parts of West Africa, I can assure you that everyone in those places is ripped. They farm, fish, and hunt every day. I don't think they would be fat even if they drank Guinness instead of Kava.
 
K

kl.Sub.chemtrails

Kava Curious
Having worked in the Solomon Islands and many parts of West Africa, I can assure you that everyone in those places is ripped.
Click to expand...


But far from skinny. I would suspect they are quite heavy with builds like the ones in the photo. And since BMI does not disciminate between what your weight is the result of (fat or biceps) it makes little sense to me that they would register with a low BMI is all. BMI does not equal fat. Most bodybuilders register as obese or morbidly obese on the BMI scale. Oh well...it's quackery anyway.
 
K

kl.kavanah

Kava Curious
This study wasn't of BMI. They were citing the findings of earlier research in passing. That study could have been conducted in Hawaii where I assume people tend to be a bit larger on avg than in Tonga due to a standard american diet and not physical exertion. I think I remember reading once before about the lower BMI correlated with heavy kava use and the suggestion that it might be tied to eating less in order to enjoy the effects more. I've probably lost a little on kava for that reason. I recall Doug reporting in his blog about when to consume kava that he eats a pretty light lunch for the same reason.



The main point of this study was to examine the effects of kava consumption on the liver in an indigenous population that uses traditional preparation methods. This is imho a pretty important subject for anyone who consumes kava regularly. Those earlier studies may have been flawed but that doesn't mean that kava consumption is without risk altogether at high levels. What I've taken from this paper is that it's probably best to keep avg monthly consumption under 200 shells and to get GGT levels checked a couple of times a year to be on the safe side, or at least during one's yearly physical, until further research has established clearer guidelines for safe kava consumption.



I mentioned in the OP that one of the weaknesses of the study is that they didn't include anyone who had previous or current liver-related diseases. Another problem is that it really only speaks to the consumption of Tongan kava. Whatever it is that effects the liver (I imagine it's exclusively or almost exclusively trace quantities of those toxic chemicals found in the rest of the plant that made people sick from supplements), we don't know if the amount of it varies from cultivar to cultivar or to what degree. It may be that with certain kavas more caution should be advised and there may be no correlation whatsoever between the strength of the kava and its effects on the liver. If my suspicion about the cause of elevated GGT is correct then that would make perfect sense.
 
K

kl.rcoz

Kava Enthusiast
I'm soon to get my liver levels checked for a second time. The first time was normal (after drinking a lot during the summer).
 
Prince Philip

Prince Philip

Duke of Edinborogu
In studying "the Australian Problem," one study stated that when people become heavy kava uses things like diet sort of go out the window. People start spending less time on food preparation so they can spend more time krunk, and spend less money on food so they can spend more money on kava. The question arises, then, if we're looking at kava making people thin chemically, or socioeconomically.
 
K

kl.Sub.chemtrails

Kava Curious
Kavanah. You are right. it was just something that amused me. Jay Cuttler is morbidly obese according the BMI scale and his bodyfat is as low as 5% during competitions. I have had my liver checked in relation to Kava consumption. I drank a lot but I dont think I was anywhere near 200 shells a month.  My liver did not react in any way that made my doctor worried. I told him what I was up to. He had some knowledge about Kava from the scare campaign some years ago and said I should come by for a checkup around every 6 months just to be on the safe side. I did 2 checkups before he concluded that it was a waste of time in so far I kept it at the current level, which is apx 3-5 of shells a day on average. I can go for days without it, and then suddenly binge so I dont drink it every day. People have different responses and I have fairly pure eating habbits (I dont eat refined foods e.g) and I dont drink, so my liver wasnt exactly under pressure before hand. Get yours tested and see if there is anything to worry about. Just to put it into a perspective most can relate to: I was told that a good night out friday  would register on monday as near liver damage. It is only when you have high numbers for a prolonged period of time that they get worried. Or if you suddenly turn yellow.

Also the level where they start to pay attention and the level where the liver will get damaged is far apart. I think (if memory serves me) with an ALAT of 300+ they get suspicious if it stays there for more than a month even if you undertake dietary changes. But the point where the liver starts to get seriously damaged is at 2000!
 
Vekta

Vekta

Notorious Lightweight
Review Maestro
That study seems a tad narrow to me. They're using nearly pure Kavain (95%)



The Taurocholic acid they seem to be using for this study is a synthetic man-made equivalent of a natural occurring steroid from the liver.



Two questions:



1. Who is going to get a dose of just kavain from drinking traditionally prepared kava?



2. We know that there are some things that man made synthetics just can't do the same as naturally occurring substances . How is this synthetic affecting the study?



I'm no scientist but it seems like they're leaving a whole lot out that could seriously change the results of this study.
 
K

kl.rcoz

Kava Enthusiast
from the pdf. I hope they continue to study kava.



->"However, it is not known if the effects of kavain noted here are acute or chronic or if the effects are reversible since the livers were continuously exposed to kavain for 2 h. Since only one kavain concentration was used, it is not known if the effects observed here are concentration-dependent and what the minimum hepatotoxic concentration of kavain is."<-



I can't remember, but wasn't there another study showing that the traditional method of perpetration provided enzymes to protect the liver from the adverse effects of kavain?





I encourage everyone to get liver function tests, it's a simple blood sample.
 
Prince Philip

Prince Philip

Duke of Edinborogu
Doctors no longer use the whole Greek thing when describing phobias, but "iatrophobia" is used to be the clinical term, if you're interested in that sort of thing.
 
K

kl.kavanah

Kava Curious
pics or it didn't happen.
rcoz wrote:



I can't remember, but wasn't there another study showing that the traditional method of perpetration provided enzymes to protect the liver from the adverse effects of kavain?
Click to expand...
 
K

kl.rcoz

Kava Enthusiast
FYI



Got my liver and cholesterol tests done on Tuesday. The doctor's assistant called today to notify me no significant changes since my last test. Good news for the liver, I'm still working on lower my cholesterol.
 
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