Makas? Or even Tudei?

[EM81]

After having had a go at the Kava King Vanuatu blend, i got stomach problems, which I stll have 48 hours later. This is a shame, as I really enjoyed both the taste, convenience and effect of this kava. Now, being a newbie, I grant that my stomach reaction may be due to me being just that, and not exactly knowing how I react. But as some on the forum have suggetsted, it might also be due to Kava King including makas in the powder, or even tudei.

I would really appreciate if @Kavaking would once and for all confirm whether you include makas in the micro, or if there is tudei in your kava.

 

[chandra]

My assumption is its probably makas. If you really like micro, I would suggest either Kalm with Kava or Gourmet Hawaiin Kava because they remove the makas before grinding. If you want to go with a cheap kava, I would get a medium grind so at least you know the makas are strained out. Vanatu has made it illegal to sell tudei kava, and it is associated more with extreme sedation that lasts for the next day or two. Tudei actually comes from the phrase "two day". Cheaper vendors (which Kava King is) are more likely to skip the step of removing the makas due to the time and loss of volume involved.

 

[verticity]

They posted details about their process a while ago. They do not separate the makas, but they grind everything up very finely. I don't think it is tudei, though.. Some people (like me) just have stomach issues with micronized: even with GHK micronized where I know the makas are removed, I get severe, painful gas.. So I just don't drink micronized. Filtering it might help (use an 80 micron nut milk bag, or double layered pantyhose).

 

[verticity]

I think also, that the reason they do not remove the makas is not that they are "cheap" but that it is impossible for them, because they import powder (or dried roots, I'm not sure). My understanding is that the makas have to be removed when the roots are fresh (and obviously, not ground into powder)...

 

[verticity]

Here is some discussion of their "Patented micronization process"
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/patented-micronization.4900/

 

[verticity]

So, basically, they are using a special process that only makes sense to use if the makas are not removed (they micronize the kava in a nitrogen atmosphere, to prevent the makas from catching fire, as they would if you tried to micronize kava in a regular atmosphere--because the makas are so tough, there is a lot of friction involved. GHK removes the makas, so he doesn't need to use any special process for micronizing.)

 

[verticity]

@nabanga had some very interesting comments about what "makas" actually are, and how the way the word is generally used on this Forum is not quite accurate:
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/macas-micronized-aluball-and-traditional-prep.7938/#post-94913

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

I have known kavaking since the late 1980's, there kava has changed some since then. I have to say that they are a good company, they process there kava in a GMP compliant facility, the go through extremes to make sure they do not have any mold or anything like that on there kava. They also have there kava tested and I have seen several of there test results and I have also had there kava tested at Truekavalabs and I can say that there kava is good kava, they did not have any tudei kava in there kava. As for the micro part they do in fact grind up all the kava, makas and all but it is not like makas is tudei kava, it is just more fiber that some people are sensitive to. In short you can trust them as long as you can tolerate there kava. I remember when Fiji used to grow a lot of different kava, now they just focus on a few of the best kava varieties, when they had the others I would notice that I would get nausea from some Fijian kava, some I could tolerate and some I could not but now they grow mostly the better ones and it does not bother me. Just make sure your get a good quality Fiji kava because they do import tudei kava from Vanuatu and mix it with there kava. I hope all this info helps.
Aloha.

Chris

 

[verticity]

... Just make sure your get a good quality Fiji kava because they do import tudei kava from Vanuatu and mix it with there kava. ...

To clarify, I think you are saying that this is a general problem with Fijian kava, not with Kava King, which has tested noble.

 

[EM81]

Someone said that you could filter the Kavaking to make it smoother, whereas someone else countered this by saying that the powder is so finely ground that it would make no sense. Any thoughts on this?

 

[verticity]

Someone said that you could filter the Kavaking to make it smoother, whereas someone else countered this by saying that the powder is so finely ground that it would make no sense. Any thoughts on this?

Micronized contains a size distribution of particles, like a Gaussian curve, not a single size particle. So, yes, you can filter it to remove particles larger than the micron size of the filter you use. Of course if you use too coarse a filter, everything will go through. But if you use an 80 micron or smaller filter, you will probably catch some stuff in the filter.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Micronized contains a size distribution of particles, like a Gaussian curve, not a single size particle. So, yes, you can filter it to remove particles larger than the micron size of the filter you use. Of course if you use too coarse a filter, everything will go through. But if you use an 80 micron or smaller filter, you will probably catch some stuff in the filter.

You are right, but I think the question is whether makas can be removed through additional straining of a ready micronised powder. I don't think these harder particles are necessarily always larger, but I might be mistaken.

 

[verticity]

You are right, but I think the question is whether makas can be removed through additional straining of a ready micronised powder. I don't think these harder particles are necessarily always larger, but I might be mistaken.

True. You can't remove the 'makas' from micronized. But what you can do it remove larger particles, which will include both larger 'maka' and larger 'desirable' particles.
You are correct, that the harder particles would not be larger (they have their patented process to ensure that!)

 

[Deleted User01]

Let me just summarize @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava's lenghty reply. GHK is the only one who sells Maka-less Micronized because he is able to remove the macas while the kava is fresh. From what I understand, it is almost like he cores the fresh Kava to remove the fibers. You can't do that unless you have Freshly Harvested Kava. And that is the reason I'm hooked on GHK Micronized. And yes, it is a little more pricey but so is single malt scotch. Hmm, maybe that is the reason that I never get side effects. Or maybe the real reason is that I have the constitution of a junk yard dog and nothing fazes me. You make the call .... but not you @verticity.

 

[verticity]

Let me just summarize @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava's lenghty reply. GHK is the only one who sells Maka-less Micronized because he is able to remove the macas while the kava is fresh. From what I understand, it is almost like he cores the fresh Kava to remove the fibers. You can't do that unless you have Freshly Harvested Kava. And that is the reason I'm hooked on GHK Micronized. And yes, it is a little more pricey but so is single malt scotch. Hmm, maybe that is the reason that I never get side effects. Or maybe the real reason is that I have the constitution of a junk yard dog and nothing fazes me. You make the call .... but not you @verticity.

Actually Kalm with Kava also claims to sell maka-less micronized, but I'm not clear on how he removes the makas...

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Actually Kalm with Kava also claims to sell maka-less micronized, but I'm not clear on how he removes the makas...

Yep, from what I remember, they try to remove/filter out as much as possible of the hard fibers before they micronise it, but Mike admits that they are unable to remove 100% of them without having access to fresh/green roots. Still, I would say that they do a great job, their micro is very easy to drink (for a micro ) and is definetely easier on the stomach than harsher micros (with makas, etc).

 

[EM81]

Today I tried to filter the kava king. Using two nylon socks one over the other, I filtered one glass of water with one teaspoon of Kava King. The result was about 1/4 teaspoon of particles in the socks and a liquid looking like cloudy apple juice rather than muddy water. On the bottom there is some very fine sediment. Havent tried it yet, as my stomach is still sore, but will give it a go when I´m better.

So is it the hardness/structure of the particles that irritate the bowel (like drinking sand), or does it have something to do with acidity or chemical composition?

 

[Deleted User01]

Actually Kalm with Kava also claims to sell maka-less micronized, but I'm not clear on how he removes the makas...

He really only has one choice, try to strain the kava and remove the "bigger" chunks. There really is no substitute for peeling it away while the kava is still fresh. Man, can you imagine chewing on freshly harvested green juicy kava with the makas removed? Hell, you could chew it and then eat it. If I ever get to Hawaii, I'm raiding @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava Chris's farm in the dark of night.

 

[Sam Handwich]

He really only has one choice, try to strain the kava and remove the "bigger" chunks. There really is no substitute for peeling it away while the kava is still fresh. Man, can you imagine chewing on freshly harvested green juicy kava with the makas removed? Hell, you could chew it and then eat it. If I ever get to Hawaii, I'm raiding @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava Chris's farm in the dark of night.

I remember Chris talking about an AR-15 of his in a previous post...a midnight raid may not end well for you Deleted User01

 

[Deleted User01]

Well I could go there during a hurricane and try to catch the flying kavas .... nevermind, that's even a worse idea. You know, Chris has done at least one article on Kava Rustling. He worked as kinda of game warden but they were trying to protect the huge stands of legacy kavas that were growing wild. I remember seeing one that completely filled the bed of a truck. @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava, maybe you can repost some of those pictures with the story.