Need help understanding the extraction test results

[Bwiggy]

Does anyone know how to interpret the extraction test results slide posted on this site?
Factors for increasing the % KLs removed from the kava to the beverage in order of significance.

*Duration of agitation: 120 seconds > 60
---(does this mean 120 sec. is better than 60 sec.)

*Water temperature: 45C > 20C
(does this mean strive to achieve 45C for max results)

*3 cycles of agitation & squeezing > one
( think this means three cycles of agitation is better than one - but each of three cycles should be 120 sec?)

*Agitation: blender > kneading
(blender is better than kneading, but not in a noticable way??)

ns Water volume: 3 times kava weight > 1
(optimal water to kava ratio is three to one?

ns Size of kava pieces 0.5 mm > 3 mm
(smaller pieces are better than larger)

ns Storage: frozen > dry
frozen is better than dry?
How or where does one get frozen??

ns Root = stump

 

[kavadude]

Instead of trying to summarize the results, I'll just tell you my opinion: Hot water helps but makes it taste nastier. Boiling dissolves the starches in the root and causes it to become extremely bitter goop and is not worth the tradeoff in potency. Volume of water does not matter as long as you have enough to knead effectively; the more water you use the more you have to drink but you don't have to deal with so much of that kava texture. Kneading is better than blending. Fresh frozen kava is great, but extremely expensive.

 

[Bwiggy]

Okay, thanks, @kavadude
What about freeze dried extract? What about adding oil or milk to the powdered root? There seems to some people who are convinced kavalactones are oil soluable only.
Are the kava bars kneading every day, or do they use extracts?

 

[kavadude]

Freeze dried extract? Never heard of such a thing.

Some kavalactones are fat and not water soluble, that is true, but it's not really relevant to the process of extraction which is more of an emulsion of the resin containing kavalactones into the water. Milk, oil and lethicin in my experience have no effect on the potency of kava.

Most bars either use a juice press or knead by hand.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

The short answer is that you don't really need to add any oils and all that you need is a bowl of warm water and some good quality root. You can potentially increase potency by playing with some emulsifiers, by longer keading, using hot or boiling water, etc. The thing is that all these additional actions come at a price: you either end up spending way more time preparing your kava or your kava ends up tasting even more horrible. Unless you are desperate and only have a small amount of some super weak stuff you shouldn't need to boil kava to get nice results.

Generally, I would suggest that you browse through this forum (or use the "search" option). most of your questions have been answered in various very long threads.

 

[Bwiggy]

Thanks, bguys...sometimes it helps to get a direct answer when I'm stopped after reading through all the vast amount of info here.

 

[Bwiggy]

@kavadude - it seems like - as in everything - if you sound confident, people assume you are correct.
I just read on kava dot com that lecithin improves the potency of the drink.
What are your sources of info- is everything here about as true as it gets?
Merry Christmas!

 

[kavadude]

Hi Bwiggy, as I said in my first post, it's just my opinion. We did a poll and most people don't add it, it has not been my experience that it improves the potency, so that's what I tell people. Didn't mean to give off the impression that I have all the answers, I look forward to more objective studies being done. I don't know that everything here is as true is it gets, but we have vendors, growers, people who are in contact with some of the most pre-eminent kava researchers, and people who have been drinking the stuff for years or decades. The knowledge you get from the posters here is battle tested if nothing else.

 

[blindy107]

It's actually fact, according the study published @Bwiggy. What @kavadude and @Henry are saying is that they don't find it to really be worth the trouble, I think. The small difference in lactone extraction is most likely only noticeable on a machine and not by mere mortals. Simply adding half to 1 tbsp more would do the same thing for less work, less offensive "warm kava taste" and keepin it traditional!

For me the blender sped things up for no perceived changes in potency. Same with hot water and lecithin which added a terrible taste while the blender was dried out and destroyed after 3 months.

Even with my relative inexperience I have found it easier to just keep it basic. Sure I'll add some flavor or something at times but that's after traditional soak and knead.

2cents

 

[Deactivated Account]

Instead of trying to summarize the results, I'll just tell you my opinion: Hot water helps but makes it taste nastier. Boiling dissolves the starches in the root and causes it to become extremely bitter goop and is not worth the tradeoff in potency. Volume of water does not matter as long as you have enough to knead effectively; the more water you use the more you have to drink but you don't have to deal with so much of that kava texture. Kneading is better than blending. Fresh frozen kava is great, but extremely expensive.

Ive been drinking kava 15-16 years...the above is correct. Be careful not to over think it.

 

[Bwiggy]

Thanks, guys. @kavadude, I'm so new, and just a bit suspicious after experiences with Kona kava farm and Bestoffiji.....and just have spent a lot of time with the kneading, getting a new blender, etc ....it's a lot of time and want to make sure I'm doing what really makes a difference.

Got it, @blindy107 - could I ask how many times you knead, add it back into the water then filter and knead again?

Gotcha, @nemo - there's so much variety to choose from when you buy the real stuff, and lots of good ideas about who to buy from here on this forum. Today I wondered about buying instant, or extract, to save time (esp. when introducing it to people who haven't had it before).

 

[blindy107]

@Bwiggy I leave it in my strainer. I knead it in water for 5-10min. Then pour that off into a jug and start a second knead with the same root.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Thanks, guys. @kavadude, I'm so new, and just a bit suspicious after experiences with Kona kava farm and Bestoffiji.....and just have spent a lot of time with the kneading, getting a new blender, etc ....it's a lot of time and want to make sure I'm doing what really makes a difference.

Got it, @blindy107 - could I ask how many times you knead, add it back into the water then filter and knead again?

Gotcha, @nemo - there's so much variety to choose from when you buy the real stuff, and lots of good ideas about who to buy from here on this forum. Today I wondered about buying instant, or extract, to save time (esp. when introducing it to people who haven't had it before).

@blindy107 is 100% right. Adding a bit of lecithin, coconut oil, boiling, freezing, kneading for 2 hours can all increase potency, but it's almost never worth the extra effort. It is indeed often cheaper and always faster to simply use a bit more powder.

If you want to introduce new people to kava then I suggest that you purchase some of the Kalm with Kava concentrate from @Kalm with Kava . It is surprisingly potent, it tastes great and everybody loves it. It works even for total newbies. If your friends like it (and I am practically sure that they will), you can then explore other products together. You can actually order some of Mike's (Kalm with Kava) Boronguru together with the concentrate. Many people here love this boronguru and think it's one of the best kavas from Vanuatu on the market. From there you can move to @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava 's products which are absolutely fantastic. Chris also sells amazing instants and micronized kavas that you can consume without wondering how to increase extraction. These are top-notch products, but they still taste like kava (albeit a very, very good and smooth one), so you may still want to start with Kalm with Kava concentrate before you encourage your friends to try the real thing.

 

[Bwiggy]

Great, thanks @blindy107 and @Henry ....I think I will take your advice!!

Am I remembering right, the Kalm with Kava is a Tudei (sp?) ?? I'm only wondering in case there is anything to know about the effects 8 - 24 hours later.
Thanks !

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Great, thanks @blindy107 and @Henry ....I think I will take your advice!!

Am I remembering right, the Kalm with Kava is a Tudei (sp?) ?? I'm only wondering in case there is anything to know about the effects 8 - 24 hours later.
Thanks !

No worries.

Nope, as per @Deleted User 's tests all Kalm with Kava products are 100% noble and pure. Same for @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava 's products. All 100% noble.

 

[Bwiggy]

Oh, okay, great, great, great. Thanks @Henry
I checked out @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava products and was glad to see a variety of instant!! I can't wait to try one and maybe have a calm family gathering!
Someday I would like to understand how a processor like them produces instant, but I'm maxed out on info now.

 

[verticity]

No worries.

Nope, as per @Deleted User 's tests all Kalm with Kava products are 100% noble and pure.

Then how do you explain the orange color of the concentrate?... JUST KIDDING!
The concentrate is good stuff.

 

[verticity]

could I ask how many times you knead, add it back into the water then filter and knead again?

(30 squeezes per minute) x (10 minutes) = 300 squeezes
Or approximately the duration of "Interstellar Overdrive" by Pink Floyd.

 

[blindy107]

Lately I've been using Cortez the killer. It's 8min or so...

 

[Bwiggy]

Ah, that makes it sound like more fun @verticity and @blindy107. So one round for you ? YOu don't add more water after the one filtration process? Not that you should, just that some people do.......

@Henry - I just read @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava newest newsletter, and he said he adds 40 - 50 grams of instant to water, sometimes he drinks the whole thing, sometimes not. Either way 50 g = $22. I was thinking 50 grams would be around 10 servings (10 tsp = 50g) with people needing 2 - 3 servings each, depending on weight and exposure to kava. Seems like I was way underestimating Or maybe I just don't understand. something.