New Kava drinker, 3rd night in a row. Reverse Tolerance?

[Krunkle]

Hello all.
I have been watching these forums for a few weeks and doing my due dilligence on Kava, different varieties & preparation techniques.

First let me say up until about a month ago I was a pretty heavy drinker and the last few weeks i've tapered off considerably for health reasons. I am a Chef, have copious amounts of daily stress and want that "ahhhhhhhh...." feeling at night after a long shift. Kava seemed to be the answer - no hangover, no weight gain, 'safer' on the liver compared to 8-10 beers and a whiskey nightcap. Before drinking any kava I stayed away from alcohol 100% for 48 hours.

I bought 1/2 lb medium grind Moi Awa from gourmethawaiiankava.com. I read that it is the "classic" feeling one relates to kava drinking, so I wanted to set a baseline.

I made what I could find was a pretty standard "modern" preparation, as I have access to just about anything kitchen-related you can think of:
3 flat TBSP medium grind in the vitamix
2 cups filtered water
1 cup unsweetened cashew milk
1/4 TSP soy lecithin powder
Blend 2 minutes on high, strain through medium mesh strainer, reserve fibers and roll into a ball, then knead out any excess liquid.

This made exactly 1 Blender Bottle of the drink.

Day 1:
I started on an empty stomach, with 4oz, and after 15 minutes felt very relaxed - got the heady sensation i've heard about, and a nice general warm comfortable body feeling. Also had the numbing sensation in my mouth and throat, I'm guessing from contact with the grains.
I ate a light, warm meal. Did not intensify any effects.
I finished the rest in 1 hour increments, 4 ounces at a time until I went to bed. I want this all the time. I feel great. Mild nausea during 'shell' 3 & 4. Nothing a heavy drinker would bat an eyelash at.
I woke up later in the night and experienced some mild paranoia and restlessness. It passed after about 15 minutes. Recall interesting dreams.

Day 2:
Prepared the kava in exactly the same manner, except I added 1 TBSP of blackstrap molasses for flavor and emulsification.
I love bitters and this was starting to taste really good.
Little to no effect day 2 initially. Drank the rest much faster than the previous day. Less potent for sure, almost nothing.
Palette seems to be very awake however. I met my girlfriend for the light meal and could smell (strongly) a bartender zesting a lemon from a faraway table.

Day 3: (as I type this)
Prepared in the same manner as day 2, except added ground cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger, and vanilla bean scrapings.
Delicious.
However, little to no effect other than mild relaxation. I am on "shell" number 2 in an hour. Am shaking in blender bottle, pouring 4oz a time into a mug and drinking it in about 5-6 sips.

Am I experiencing reverse tolerance? Am I a hard head? I have already placed an order for a different strain from the same website and am not giving up. I've lost 7 pounds in 5 days because I've cut the alcohol out of my diet, and waking up refreshed with energy is fantastic. I just hope I'm not chasing the dragon here.

Thanks for your time and the read. I appreciate any tips or comments for a newbie.

 

[GussWest]

First, congrats on quitting booze. Stuff is poison. I also have mostly quit EtOH in favor of kava. soberrecovery.com

Second, it took me weeks to break thru RT to be able to feel the effects of 3TBs.

Third, 3 level TBs in three cups of liquid just ain't enough kavalactones. Try 3 heaping TBs and go from there. The recipes sound delicious. Nice work, Chef!

 

[ThePiper]

3 tbs is great for me but ive been drinkin kava for a while and my anxiety levels make it so i can appreciate any amount. However that is on the low end of the spectrum. I say try 5 tbs and if thats not enough going up to 7 or 8 would still be considered a normal dose. If you knead the kava a lot you will get more goodies per load

 

[CactusKava]

Hello all.
I have been watching these forums for a few weeks and doing my due dilligence on Kava, different varieties & preparation techniques.

First let me say up until about a month ago I was a pretty heavy drinker and the last few weeks i've tapered off considerably for health reasons. I am a Chef, have copious amounts of daily stress and want that "ahhhhhhhh...." feeling at night after a long shift. Kava seemed to be the answer - no hangover, no weight gain, 'safer' on the liver compared to 8-10 beers and a whiskey nightcap. Before drinking any kava I stayed away from alcohol 100% for 48 hours.

I bought 1/2 lb medium grind Moi Awa from gourmethawaiiankava.com. I read that it is the "classic" feeling one relates to kava drinking, so I wanted to set a baseline.

I made what I could find was a pretty standard "modern" preparation, as I have access to just about anything kitchen-related you can think of:
3 flat TBSP medium grind in the vitamix
2 cups filtered water
1 cup unsweetened cashew milk
1/4 TSP soy lecithin powder
Blend 2 minutes on high, strain through medium mesh strainer, reserve fibers and roll into a ball, then knead out any excess liquid.

This made exactly 1 Blender Bottle of the drink.

Day 1:
I started on an empty stomach, with 4oz, and after 15 minutes felt very relaxed - got the heady sensation i've heard about, and a nice general warm comfortable body feeling. Also had the numbing sensation in my mouth and throat, I'm guessing from contact with the grains.
I ate a light, warm meal. Did not intensify any effects.
I finished the rest in 1 hour increments, 4 ounces at a time until I went to bed. I want this all the time. I feel great. Mild nausea during 'shell' 3 & 4. Nothing a heavy drinker would bat an eyelash at.
I woke up later in the night and experienced some mild paranoia and restlessness. It passed after about 15 minutes. Recall interesting dreams.

Day 2:
Prepared the kava in exactly the same manner, except I added 1 TBSP of blackstrap molasses for flavor and emulsification.
I love bitters and this was starting to taste really good.
Little to no effect day 2 initially. Drank the rest much faster than the previous day. Less potent for sure, almost nothing.
Palette seems to be very awake however. I met my girlfriend for the light meal and could smell (strongly) a bartender zesting a lemon from a faraway table.

Day 3: (as I type this)
Prepared in the same manner as day 2, except added ground cinnamon, nutmeg, ginger, and vanilla bean scrapings.
Delicious.
However, little to no effect other than mild relaxation. I am on "shell" number 2 in an hour. Am shaking in blender bottle, pouring 4oz a time into a mug and drinking it in about 5-6 sips.

Am I experiencing reverse tolerance? Am I a hard head? I have already placed an order for a different strain from the same website and am not giving up. I've lost 7 pounds in 5 days because I've cut the alcohol out of my diet, and waking up refreshed with energy is fantastic. I just hope I'm not chasing the dragon here.

Thanks for your time and the read. I appreciate any tips or comments for a newbie.

Hey @Krunkle !

You're going a bit too light on the powder. Go for 2 tablespoons per 4-6 ounces of liquid for each shell. I'll normally have 3 or 4 shells a night.

What sort of mesh strainer are you using? Depending on what's being let through your strainer, you might not be getting everything out you need. I include a free kava strainer with each order that's an 80 micron strainer, which I find to be the best size.

 

[Krunkle]

Thank you for the quick responses.

I did end up finishing the batch last night and felt some effects, however I did have a glass of red wine and am seriously irritable today. No more mixing the two beverages for sure. I think my issue is just going too light on the powder per serving, probably just being cautious.

The strainer I use is a small 18/8 chinois, it lets plenty of small particles through and catches the fiber. Basically the same strainer I use when grinding whole spices to catch the big grains and keep the fine powder.

Will keep trying and posting!

 

[theGrogfather]

Welcome @Krunkle
I've been drinking kava a few months now and at 3 tbsp per 2-3 cups water, it only produces mild effects. As others have stated try bumping that up to 6. I use 8 if I want to get a good krunk going.
Also, to achieve this end of the day 'aaahhhh' you are talking about, Moi might not be the best choice. I really love the stuff but it's a heady and uplifting kava that has kept me awake at night several times. Great daytime social kava. You might want to research something more balanced/heavy if a good sleep and body relaxation is what you're looking for. Hiwa from GHK for example.

 

[Cmessier]

For what its worth......the one and only time I tried mixing anything into my kava I felt very reduced effects. I wonder if mixing other things in is doing the same for you.

Ive only recently started trying out kava. I quit drinking about 6 years ago. Congrats.....I know how tough it is and like you I have an extremely stressful job (service advisor at an auto repair facility) and I know what you mean about needing the "ahhhhhh".

Kava will do it for you. I personally dont buy much into the reverse tolerance theory. I felt it good and strong my first time with Nangol Noble and it hasnt failed me aside from the one time I mixed in a flavor enhancer. As a former drinker....guys like us are probably looking for a more pronounced effect. Just up your dose. Make it good and stroooong and slam it back a few times and youll get the feeling youre looking for. I was skeptical till I had my 4th or 5th cup and got up to get more and went "whoa.....yeeeeaahhhhh....THATs better. ".

It wont take you out like booze did for you but itll chill you out enough that leaving the hard stuff alone isnt so bad.

 

[Ligermeat]

For what its worth......the one and only time I tried mixing anything into my kava I felt very reduced effects. I wonder if mixing other things in is doing the same for you.

Ive only recently started trying out kava. I quit drinking about 6 years ago. Congrats.....I know how tough it is and like you I have an extremely stressful job (service advisor at an auto repair facility) and I know what you mean about needing the "ahhhhhh".

Kava will do it for you. I personally dont buy much into the reverse tolerance theory. I felt it good and strong my first time with Nangol Noble and it hasnt failed me aside from the one time I mixed in a flavor enhancer. As a former drinker....guys like us are probably looking for a more pronounced effect. Just up your dose. Make it good and stroooong and slam it back a few times and youll get the feeling youre looking for. I was skeptical till I had my 4th or 5th cup and got up to get more and went "whoa.....yeeeeaahhhhh....THATs better. ".

It wont take you out like booze did for you but itll chill you out enough that leaving the hard stuff alone isnt so bad.

Yeah! I see people getting drunk, stumbling out of bars, and barely able to function. What can be gained from this? What is so fun about basically shutting down your bodily functions? I just don't get people.

 

[Cmessier]

Yeah! I see people getting drunk, stumbling out of bars, and barely able to function. What can be gained from this? What is so fun about basically shutting down your bodily functions? I just don't get people.

Sometimes its preferable to thoughts going a million miles an hour. Being drunk is euphoric. Everything is better. Body doesnt hurt.....lips and fingers are warm and tingly...the mind isnt racing....life seems good. It just makes it worse the next day. That and the poor choices I made while I drank are why I no longer do it. I sure do miss that feeling though. It gets rid of alllll stress. At least for me.

 

[Krunkle]

The next batch I'll brew 'straight' using just some fat & water with a heavier dose. I made a thicker batch last night and left it in the fridge until an hour ago and am feeling alright, a bit on the drowsy side though.
I ordered Kamakua from GHK as it listed harvest date as April of this year. I am always concerned with freshness so I saw this as a benefit. We'll see how that works out.

Other than health reasons, yes, I've woken up many times feeling lost & totally blank only to find out something terrible happened the night before that I don't remember... Then there's the crushing hangover, causing shakes and dizziness around very hot and very sharp objects. I always found it so odd that we in the restaurant industry all have alcohol issues when it can be absolutely awful to slip up on a busy night.

@theGrogfather Thanks for the tip, I did notice the first night waking up with mild paranoia and racing thoughts, but haven't experienced that since. Moi does seem to keep me relatively alert.

 

[Krunkle]

Whipped up a stronger batch just using 3 heaping TBSP of root, 1 cup lactose-free
Milk (lactose issues...) and 1 cup filtered water.

Drank 8oz and got majorly heady & mild body buzz. Like the first time i smoked pot 20 years ago. Warm feeling in the head and neck moved quickly into my gut. Have 6oz left over but am not going there tonight.

Nauseous as hell. Had to lie down. At least 30 minutes of stomach heat & nausea. Common for newbies? Did I not strain well enough?

 

[kastom_lif]

Whipped up a stronger batch just using 3 heaping TBSP of root, 1 cup lactose-free
Milk (lactose issues...) and 1 cup filtered water.

Drank 8oz and got majorly heady & mild body buzz. Like the first time i smoked pot 20 years ago. Warm feeling in the head and neck moved quickly into my gut. Have 6oz left over but am not going there tonight.

Nauseous as hell. Had to lie down. At least 30 minutes of stomach heat & nausea. Common for newbies? Did I not strain well enough?

The extra fat in the milk can help to pull more kavalactones out of the roots than plain water can. It also speeds the fat-soluble kavalactones straight into your bloodstream once it's in your stomach.

There are certain herbs that have been known to help with nausea. I wouldn't suggest anything that's not kosher where you live though. Wink wink. Be good now.

Probably best to space out more, smaller shells and kick it with a meal at the end of the session.

Adult lactose tolerance is a mutation that arose in societies that kept lots of dairy animals. You and me, Krunkle, us non-mutants... we're the normal ones :lol:

 

[Cmessier]

Whipped up a stronger batch just using 3 heaping TBSP of root, 1 cup lactose-free
Milk (lactose issues...) and 1 cup filtered water.

Drank 8oz and got majorly heady & mild body buzz. Like the first time i smoked pot 20 years ago. Warm feeling in the head and neck moved quickly into my gut. Have 6oz left over but am not going there tonight.

Nauseous as hell. Had to lie down. At least 30 minutes of stomach heat & nausea. Common for newbies? Did I not strain well enough?

For former heavy drinkers like us Im surprised youre nauseated. I developed a stomach of iron. If I wanted a buzz Id drink stuff I HATED if thats what was around. I could even keep gin down (I despised gin). I dunno if you didnt filter enough or if the bad taste just did you in but dont give up on it. Kava is so much better for you on so many levels than booze and if you give kava some time and patience it WILL scratch most of that itch.

I myself had the kind of fay that made me wanna drink and I am so grateful for the grog right now. Dont give up on it dude.

 

[chandra]

I didnt experience reverse tolerance. Try a higher dose in the evening in case it makes you tired/lazy. If that doesn't work try taking more. Part or the issue is just having to find hte right dosage and strain for you. If that doesn;t work, I would try a different strain.You really can't overdo it on Kava in a harmful way. The worst that's ever happened to me is being off balance and tired, so don't be afraid to experiment with higher doses. Alcohol works on gaba, just like Kava. This may affect your tolerance. I don't know there, just guessing.

 

[EQ]

Cut the extras out.
Kava + Water is what works for me.

I had to leave Kava for 2 weeks because of what soy did to me. Milk good for some, and me not so much. I haven't tried coconut milk though.

Blending the Kava is nasty imo. Knead it for a smoother drink. I swear it makes a difference.

Try just Kava in water, kneading method, and slam sip and take your time with it. I think you may prefer just traditional way.


Hopefully the nausea will be fully removed .

 

[mdmace]

I'd like to hear if you go back to your other prep method and just increase the dose. That recipe sounded delicious. It'd be great if it was just the amount you were using that was causing it to be weak.
I will say after a bit of usage I was able to back off and use less.

 

[frosty]

Ethanol and kava are both gaba agonists, meaning they both work on the same receptors and with the same action so I think the receptors need to clear before experience #2 is similar to #1, but I'm no neurobiologist.

 

[JCP]

With reverse tolerance, does having more actually lessen the effect?

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

With reverse tolerance, does having more actually lessen the effect?

No, it just means that after you've 'primed' your system, you will feel effects from smaller doses than you may have originally. That being said, there are occasions where I use less kava than the previous days but end up with better effects.