Questions about tolerance and withdrawal

[LCalrissian]

Hello friendly kava drinkers,

I've been drinking kava now for a few months and so far I'm thoroughly enjoying it; I'm going to post separately about that. However, being a bit of a worrier in general, I'm somewhat concerned about tolerance (regular, not reverse) and withdrawal.

A) Does a tolerance to kava develop over time, with daily or near-daily consumption?
B) Does anyone experience kava withdrawal, in any form? Seems like the consensus here is that kava doesn't cause withdrawal but... like... really? How can that be? Seems too good to be true.

To be clear, I haven't noticed any issues with tolerance or withdrawal yet, but I just want to hear about everyone else's experiences with this.

Thank you all for your help!

 

[Zaphod]

In my experience there was no physical withdrawal symptoms - nothing, zero, zilch, nada. The real problem is that you go right back to your physical/mental baseline you were at before taking kava. So if you are taking it for anxiety or sleep and not just occasionally for recreational purposes it is psychologically addictive. You don't want to stop, you don't want to be at that baseline- even when my dermo got bad, or I had issues with styes in my eyes.
The mental cravings are there - but not uncontrollable. If you have ever gone on a diet and had to fight that will to chow down on those yummy pile of wings in front of you, that is about as bad as kava withdrawal gets. It is the mental craving of that drop in anxiety. It makes a lot of sense. I mean if someone told you in the middle of your stress filled work day that you could just stop and go sit on a nice calm relaxing beach, and chill in a hammock for the rest of the day how tough would it be to say "no thanks I will just keep my stress"?

 

[The Kap'n]

Have been drinking kava daily for 10+ years. Have stopped for a few weeks in between due to sickness or having to take medicine that doesn't agree, and I can tell you I've experience no withdrawal. I've experienced full on withdrawal from other substances in my life, and kava does nothing in that realm when you stop drinking it.

As to tolerance I've been consuming 40 grams for about half of that time period. The first half was actually more, and I adjusted the dose as the kava built up in my system.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

The closest thing I've found to a kava withdrawal symptom, is having weird vivid dreams for a night or two...similar to the ones you might have when starting kava for the first time or after a long break.
Another minor one might be that dermopathy seems to flare up for a while when you stop drinking kava...if you've been drinking at a level that would bring in dermopathy in the first place.

Basically no, there are no substantial or noteworthy withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Zaphod]

Have been drinking kava daily for 10+ years. Have stopped for a few weeks in between due to sickness or having to take medicine that doesn't agree, and I can tell you I've experience no withdrawal. I've experienced full on withdrawal from other substances in my life, and kava does nothing in that realm when you stop drinking it.

As to tolerance I've been consuming 40 grams for about half of that time period. The first half was actually more, and I adjusted the dose as the kava built up in my system.

Okay - maybe my use of the word "addiction" is too strong. I have never had to fight a real addiction with something that has both physical, and mental cravings like alcohol, nicotine, weed, or the stronger addictions of opiates. Maybe strong craving is a better way to describe it.

 

[The Kap'n]

Okay - maybe my use of the word "addiction" is too strong. I have never had to fight a real addiction with something that has both physical, and mental cravings like alcohol, nicotine, weed, or the stronger addictions of opiates. Maybe strong craving is a better way to describe it.

My interpretation of addiction in context of desire for kava vs a medically proven addictive substance.

Kava:
Mental: "Boy, I sure enjoy my kava at the end of a long day. It would cause me a little grief if I absolutely couldn't have it, but I'd still go on about my day as normal until the next kava drinking time"
Physical: None

vs

Opiates/Benzos
Mental: "Boy, if I don't have my dose of this drug, there is absolutely no way I can function. I absolutely must have it at any and all costs"
Physical: All the classic withdrawal. Gotta have it.


I'd say you're right. I can honestly say I have had a strong craving for kava in a stressful time (especially if I'm stressed at night). Let's put it this way, my craving to leave work when work is over, is far FAR more on a daily basis than any desire I have to pound shells of kava on a moments notice.

 

[Jonathan]

Mental: "Boy, I sure enjoy my kava at the end of a long day. It would cause me a little grief if I absolutely couldn't have it, but I'd still go on about my day as normal until the next kava drinking time"

Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm a little bummed when I run out, about as much as if the grocery store is out of La Croix soda water. Absolutely no physical withdrawal whatsoever.

 

[Zaphod]

My interpretation of addiction in context of desire for kava vs a medically proven addictive substance.

Kava:
Mental: "Boy, I sure enjoy my kava at the end of a long day. It would cause me a little grief if I absolutely couldn't have it, but I'd still go on about my day as normal until the next kava drinking time"
Physical: None

vs

Opiates/Benzos
Mental: "Boy, if I don't have my dose of this drug, there is absolutely no way I can function. I absolutely must have it at any and all costs"
Physical: All the classic withdrawal. Gotta have it.


I'd say you're right. I can honestly say I have had a strong craving for kava in a stressful time (especially if I'm stressed at night). Let's put it this way, my craving to leave work when work is over, is far FAR more on a daily basis than any desire I have to pound shells of kava on a moments notice.

Fair enough - although I would characterize my personal craving/desire for kava as bit stronger than that I think it is a minor distinction and probably dependent on the person.

 

[F3TU5]

I haven't had kava in a week and half after daily use for three months. There is a package of kava in my mailbox right now and I don't even care. After almost 2 years of use I don't feel any addiction to this substance, only love is what i feel from kava.

 

[Edward]

One other aspect of kava that is vaguely related is that when you've had your kava for the night you don't often feel the urge to keep drinking to keep the feeling going. Once you've felt nice for an hour or two even when it starts to wear off you're either asleep or just so relaxed and happy you're not looking to get smashed on a ton more kava. During the week I'm happy with a dose just above medicinal for me, bordering on recreational but only just. If it doesn't happen I'm not likely to be slamming stronger shells just to try and get that feeling. I will have had some effects and I'll sleep ok. On a weekend if I have time and I'm feeling ok after the first batch I will sometimes make some more but even then it's not because I am chasing a feeling and/or am so out of my mind I can't take a rational decision about it, it's always considered carefully from experience about whether I really need and could handle more without going too far rather than a blind reaction to a feeling.

 

[LCalrissian]

Thanks for the responses all. These certainly seem to jive with my experience. I've noticed the desire to have kava, but not a craving per se, and frequently I do find that once I've had some for the night I don't particularly feel the need to have any more (sometimes I think well, I already feel pretty good, drinking more would just be a waste of money right now).

Can we talk more about tolerance? Some people seem to be saying you actually need less kava to bring the same effects over time? Does everyone feel this way? Anecdotally I feel like I need more and more of the Loa Waka micronized I have in order to get that recreational feeling, although I can use much less and get pleasant medicinal effects.

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the responses all. These certainly seem to jive with my experience. I've noticed the desire to have kava, but not a craving per se, and frequently I do find that once I've had some for the night I don't particularly feel the need to have any more (sometimes I think well, I already feel pretty good, drinking more would just be a waste of money right now).

Can we talk more about tolerance? Some people seem to be saying you actually need less kava to bring the same effects over time? Does everyone feel this way? Anecdotally I feel like I need more and more of the Loa Waka micronized I have in order to get that recreational feeling, although I can use much less and get pleasant medicinal effects.

For me I have noticed that I need less as I go along especially after several weeks without a day off. You can tell it's building up in your system because that's when you start noticing next day effects more. Sometimes I'm still tingling in the muscles until lunchtime depending on the kava and the amount.