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Really struggling

TrevC

Kava Enthusiast
Hey guys. I've had this back-and-forth situation going on for a while with no explanation.
There are times where, as I've said before, I can drink Kava and wonder "WHY don't more people utilize this?"
...and there are other times where I ask "WHY do I even bother?"

But what I started noticing more and more is that when Kava "doesn't work", then other supplements seem less effective.
(I know it's a taboo one, but I am still taking K@, and have been on a slow blind taper for a while now, with my wife's assistance.)
Other supplements I take daily: K2+D3, Inositol, L-Tyrosine, St. John's Wort
Supplements I take occasionally: Mucuna Pruriens, L-Tryptophan (for sleep), GABA+Magnesium+Melatonin (also for sleep)

The strange part is I am able to sleep - which tells me I'm not apparently in complete K@ withdrawals.

After having bloodwork done, as well as some other things (that were really done due to age and family history - like a colonoscopy), I started looking into the gut-brain connection more.
I started taking probiotics and journaling what I would eat, and how I would feel afterwards.

(I also posted some time back about using MCT oil / fat more often, and this seeming to have a better effect on absorption.)

What I've had to do is to KNOW things will get better. This is one powerful benefit of keeping a journal - I can look back, when I'm low, and read that I came out of it before.
Because the scary part is NOT knowing... or not having hope.

So as I write this I have mixed emotions. I'm heading into my kava session soon, with some degree of excitement.
But I also have this gut feeling that, like the past few days, nothing will come of it.
(And I notice I never get nausea except when Kava isn't doing what it's meant to do. So it's a double-whammy.)

STRESS is linked to malabsorption, as if your body is in fight-or-flight and takes priority away from that aspect of functioning.
But I'm not super stressed about any particular thing... EXCEPT BEING STRESSED and having supplements not work.

Tonight I'm going to revisit adding black pepper to my Kava. I know it has worked well for curcumin absorption, and I've read anecdotal reports of it used with Kava.

The average feeling the past few days has been unrelenting fear, and very low motivation.

ANY advice, suggestion... even if it's an idea you think may sound crazy... I would welcome hearing it.

Thank you guys so much.
 

TrevC

Kava Enthusiast
Thank you so much for this. I really really appreciate you taking time to say it, as it is encouraging to me.
 

faldho

Kava Curious
i'm a daily kava drinker but I also drink kefir and inulin daily. I put a strong emphasis on probiotics because I know they work for my stress really well and help with mineral absorption. It's also really fun to experiment with fermenting things :p
 

Orz[EST]

Kava Enthusiast
Cold water bathing and contact sports are good antistress activities. Can't swear by meditation but it probably is, in the form of tea ceremony or yoga.

Haven't found any reliable and strong antistress supplement that is reasonable to use multiple days a week so far. There are some adaptogens but these are not so good against a major issue
 

Orz[EST]

Kava Enthusiast
i'm a daily kava drinker but I also drink kefir and inulin daily.
Hmm... Kefir. It should be rare in USA and Western Europe but common in Eastern Europe and maybe further east.

In Kazakhstan there is Kumis (fermented horse milk, haven't tried that) and in Turkey and Azerbaijan, Airan (try at least once for curiosity).
 

kavakarma

Kava Enthusiast
St. John's Wort seems like it can interact with melatonin, your natural body chemistry, and perhaps kava. L-theanine might be worth looking into! I believe kava is rich in minerals magnesium, potassium, and iron, so you may not need magnesium if you are drinking kava. I'm curious what benefits you credit st johns wort with? I don't dislike the herb, but it affected me in a strong way, it seemed to disrupt my sense of time (what time it is) and so did melatonin, so it has been,six years since I tried either and have no incentive to try again. Skullcap, is a nice relaxing tea that I would drink a cup of any day if it is prepared for me. It is great with cinnamon or honey or licorice root. Make sure not to burn the skullcap or you may miss out on the flowery flavor. (latin name for skullcap: scutellaria latefloria)
 

Groggy

Kava aficionado
Admin
STRESS is linked to malabsorption, as if your body is in fight-or-flight and takes priority away from that aspect of functioning.
But I'm not super stressed about any particular thing... EXCEPT BEING STRESSED and having supplements not work.
So what you're saying is that you are stressed. I think it's important you realize that.

My honest opinion is that people including myself at one point, rely too much on supplements to "fix" something or other that we don't like about ourselves. I think the reality is we all are looking for a quick fix, again I fall in the same category. I think what most of us fail to realize is that firstly we are not supposed to be happy all the time. It's not how life works. Secondly and this is my opinion, the majority of problems we have on a psychological level can be addressed and eventually overcome by self-analysis and therapy. Boy it would be nice if there was a pill that could fix all that ails us, but it's simply not a reality. It takes a lot of work and a lot of personal growth to overcome a lot of these types of anxieties, depression or whatever psychological conditions that are affecting us.

As I personally and slowly peel back the layers of what causes me anxiety and discomfort in my life, I find I need less and less substances to "help" me, including kava.
 

TrevC

Kava Enthusiast
St. John's Wort seems like it can interact with melatonin, your natural body chemistry, and perhaps kava. L-theanine might be worth looking into! I believe kava is rich in minerals magnesium, potassium, and iron, so you may not need magnesium if you are drinking kava. I'm curious what benefits you credit st johns wort with? I don't dislike the herb, but it affected me in a strong way, it seemed to disrupt my sense of time (what time it is) and so did melatonin, so it has been,six years since I tried either and have no incentive to try again. Skullcap, is a nice relaxing tea that I would drink a cup of any day if it is prepared for me. It is great with cinnamon or honey or licorice root. Make sure not to burn the skullcap or you may miss out on the flowery flavor. (latin name for skullcap: scutellaria latefloria)
The thinking behind my use of St. John's Wort is that it's called "nature's SSRI". When combined with mood-boosting supplements like K@, it reportedly allows for a longer duration of effects. It honestly may not be doing much of anything for me, though. This past week I started taking less of it, to see. Next week I'm aiming to just go without St. John's Wort.
 

TrevC

Kava Enthusiast
So what you're saying is that you are stressed. I think it's important you realize that.

My honest opinion is that people including myself at one point, rely too much on supplements to "fix" something or other that we don't like about ourselves. I think the reality is we all are looking for a quick fix, again I fall in the same category. I think what most of us fail to realize is that firstly we are not supposed to be happy all the time. It's not how life works. Secondly and this is my opinion, the majority of problems we have on a psychological level can be addressed and eventually overcome by self-analysis and therapy. Boy it would be nice if there was a pill that could fix all that ails us, but it's simply not a reality. It takes a lot of work and a lot of personal growth to overcome a lot of these types of anxieties, depression or whatever psychological conditions that are affecting us.

As I personally and slowly peel back the layers of what causes me anxiety and discomfort in my life, I find I need less and less substances to "help" me, including kava.
I sincerely thank you for this.
And I feel you are right - I think there are fundamental things we should do regardless of supplements/substances, or at least have in our toolbox (Cognitive Behavior Therapy, for example) that work or at least HELP, regardless of our body's current chemical situation.
For me these past months, it has been knowing. As I keep a daily journal, I have shown myself that I can plot a rise and fall, rise and fall.
If I look at that, in black and white, even when I feel very low, it reminds me "You won't always feel THIS bad. Hang tight."
 

Orz[EST]

Kava Enthusiast
I did not like or feel scullcap.

Rhodiola seems legit according to the literature but is likely at least smoked tobacco addiction potentiator.

Kanna is legit (if proper strain, some are weak and wrong species or cultivars. Some people liked kanna without overt problems, disliked by some. It is not "too good" as tea. Mild chill. Difficult to find reasons why St. John's would be better.
 

Kalm with Kava

Kava Vendor
So what you're saying is that you are stressed. I think it's important you realize that.

My honest opinion is that people including myself at one point, rely too much on supplements to "fix" something or other that we don't like about ourselves. I think the reality is we all are looking for a quick fix, again I fall in the same category. I think what most of us fail to realize is that firstly we are not supposed to be happy all the time. It's not how life works. Secondly and this is my opinion, the majority of problems we have on a psychological level can be addressed and eventually overcome by self-analysis and therapy. Boy it would be nice if there was a pill that could fix all that ails us, but it's simply not a reality. It takes a lot of work and a lot of personal growth to overcome a lot of these types of anxieties, depression or whatever psychological conditions that are affecting us.

As I personally and slowly peel back the layers of what causes me anxiety and discomfort in my life, I find I need less and less substances to "help" me, including kava.
As a guy who would greatly benefit by saying, "kava will fix you!", I'm glad that you took the time to write this out and explain that kava won't solve our problems. Kava is great, and can easily help people in dark times. However, we should all be wary of people touting cure-alls or solutions to complicated problems in our lives. Use kava when you need it, and don't use it when you don't need it. That's the beauty of kava.
 

Zaphod

Kava Lover
So what you're saying is that you are stressed. I think it's important you realize that.

My honest opinion is that people including myself at one point, rely too much on supplements to "fix" something or other that we don't like about ourselves. I think the reality is we all are looking for a quick fix, again I fall in the same category. I think what most of us fail to realize is that firstly we are not supposed to be happy all the time. It's not how life works. Secondly and this is my opinion, the majority of problems we have on a psychological level can be addressed and eventually overcome by self-analysis and therapy. Boy it would be nice if there was a pill that could fix all that ails us, but it's simply not a reality. It takes a lot of work and a lot of personal growth to overcome a lot of these types of anxieties, depression or whatever psychological conditions that are affecting us.

As I personally and slowly peel back the layers of what causes me anxiety and discomfort in my life, I find I need less and less substances to "help" me, including kava.
This reminds me, and might be of some help to people suffering, of the JRE podcast with Jewel. I know Joe Rogan gets a lot of well deserved criticism, but he has on some amazing guests who rarely get to talk for 3+ hours. This podcast is amazing and one of his best. I was a fan of Jewel in the '90s and knew that she was homeless for awhile but I did not know her full background, depression, and abuse she endured. She has some really interesting methods for tracking (journaling) and combating her depression. It is well worth listening to. She also has a website and program ( I think for free) for her mental health exercises that according to a good friend has done her a lot of help.
 

Groggy

Kava aficionado
Admin
This reminds me, and might be of some help to people suffering, of the JRE podcast with Jewel. I know Joe Rogan gets a lot of well deserved criticism, but he has on some amazing guests who rarely get to talk for 3+ hours. This podcast is amazing and one of his best. I was a fan of Jewel in the '90s and knew that she was homeless for awhile but I did not know her full background, depression, and abuse she endured. She has some really interesting methods for tracking (journaling) and combating her depression. It is well worth listening to. She also has a website and program ( I think for free) for her mental health exercises that according to a good friend has done her a lot of help.
Yes I watched it and I agree with you. Worth watching, and it was very good!
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
St. John's Wort seems like it can interact with melatonin, your natural body chemistry, and perhaps kava. L-theanine might be worth looking into! I believe kava is rich in minerals magnesium, potassium, and iron, so you may not need magnesium if you are drinking kava. I'm curious what benefits you credit st johns wort with? I don't dislike the herb, but it affected me in a strong way, it seemed to disrupt my sense of time (what time it is) and so did melatonin, so it has been,six years since I tried either and have no incentive to try again. Skullcap, is a nice relaxing tea that I would drink a cup of any day if it is prepared for me. It is great with cinnamon or honey or licorice root. Make sure not to burn the skullcap or you may miss out on the flowery flavor. (latin name for skullcap: scutellaria latefloria)
Interestingly I've been studying melatonin and saint johns wort recently. SJW is known to induce (cause higher activity) metabolization in the pathway CYP3A4 (This is why they say don't mix with birth control pills as it can cause them to be metabolized very fast and lose their effectiveness), a similar effect to the pharmaceutical drug rifampin. Melatonin in the body is metabolized by the pathway CYP1A2 so these likely won't affect each other. Kava also isn't active at CYP3A4 so there's likely no interactions there either. There actually could be more of an interaction between melatonin and kava than melatonin and Saint Johns Wort. Nothing negative, but could explain a bit of kavas sedation. Don't quote me on that yet, because I'm still researching.
 

Jacob Bula

Nobody
So what you're saying is that you are stressed. I think it's important you realize that.

My honest opinion is that people including myself at one point, rely too much on supplements to "fix" something or other that we don't like about ourselves. I think the reality is we all are looking for a quick fix, again I fall in the same category. I think what most of us fail to realize is that firstly we are not supposed to be happy all the time. It's not how life works. Secondly and this is my opinion, the majority of problems we have on a psychological level can be addressed and eventually overcome by self-analysis and therapy. Boy it would be nice if there was a pill that could fix all that ails us, but it's simply not a reality. It takes a lot of work and a lot of personal growth to overcome a lot of these types of anxieties, depression or whatever psychological conditions that are affecting us.

As I personally and slowly peel back the layers of what causes me anxiety and discomfort in my life, I find I need less and less substances to "help" me, including kava.
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This is artwork by Ramin Nazer.

 

Jacob Bula

Nobody
Cold water bathing and contact sports are good antistress activities. Can't swear by meditation but it probably is, in the form of tea ceremony or yoga.

Haven't found any reliable and strong antistress supplement that is reasonable to use multiple days a week so far. There are some adaptogens but these are not so good against a major issue
I second the cold-water exposure. I've been doing the Wim Hoff breathing method then jumping in the lake and taking cold swims. Nothing snaps me out of a funk quicker. Mindfulness meditation also helps me a lot.
 

Zaphod

Kava Lover
I second the cold-water exposure. I've been doing the Wim Hoff breathing method then jumping in the lake and taking cold swims. Nothing snaps me out of a funk quicker. Mindfulness meditation also helps me a lot.
I have done the breathing without the cold exposure.....and it helps as well. Just in case folks are reluctant to start right off the bat with cold exposure.
 

Groggy

Kava aficionado
Admin
Wim Hoff breathing
I am not sure about this method but it seems similar to what i think is regular meditative breathing. I follow a simple breathing mantra when meditating or breathing to ease anxiety (more rare nowadays). Eyes closed usually, concentrating on breath alone, Breath in slowly from diaphragm, I count slowly in my head to 10 or 15, as I inhale, I briefly hold my breath and slowly and deliberately, breath out. (it's harder to exhale slowly at first). And that's it, most of the times if I'm just relaxing, I can achieve a noticeable decrease in stress in under 10 breaths. If I am meditating with the intention of going deeper, it is also a good technique.
 

Jacob Bula

Nobody
"Wim Hof’s breathing technique falls under the umbrella of pranayam/pranayama, but it is more accurate to say that he repackaged the Tibetan Buddhist breath technique of “Inner Fire,” Tummo."

This was a Quora answer which I agree with and think is accurate.

With Wim Hoff you superventilate. 25-30 deep breaths in while just letting out a natural exhale, then on the last breath out you hold for as long as possible. when you feel the urge to breath, you take a deep breath in and hold for 10 seconds. Do 3 rounds of this. Each time your breath hold gets longer without effort.

The following Smithsonian article outlines some scientific findings from the Wim Hof method:

"
To a degree, Musik’s research supports Hof’s hypothesis. After Hof went through his preparation exercises to induce this effect, Musik put the Iceman into the MRI machine in a special suit they shot through with shot cold water and hot water in five minute intervals. Some previous research has shown that this exercise makes Hof’s blood more alkaline, since it becomes saturated with oxygen.

Musik found that, when exposed to cold, Hof activates a part of the brain that releases opioids and cannabinoids into the body. These components can inhibit the signals responsible for telling your body you are feeling pain or cold, and trigger the release of dopamine and serotonin. The result, Musik says, is a kind of euphoric effect on the body that lasts for several minutes.

"

The following article details what is claimed to be taking place physiologically with the Wim Hof method:

 
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