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The Current Vanuatu kava situation - Drinking Noble isn't as easy as we thought...

ApéroNoble

The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
Insightful and alarming but appreciated information, what is the consensus on kava from places such as the Solomon Islands although close to Vanuatu, totally different Government. I know Solomon is a constitutional monarchy under Queen Elizabeth. My understanding is the situation concerning tuday is singular to Vanuatu and the interference of China on that Nation.
 
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Deleted User01

Thanks Deleted User. I know you put a lot of time and money into your testing and I really appreciate it.(y)

I'm not surprised that the "Noble" Kava from Vanuatu and probably others is spiked. Those rumors have been around a while and you finally proved it. It not only makes for more volume, but it makes the Kava more potent for competitive purposes. You also answered the question that has been bandied about, "Why is some of the Kava from GHK not as strong as others". The answer is because it doesn't have any Tudie and Chris has vowed to never add Tudie to his Kava. So the members have a choice. Do you want a little Tudie in your Kava or not? The islanders would say "No" and even the farmers who sell the spiked Kava don't drink "spiked Kava". I don't want it because I get plenty of good effects with pure Noble Kava. But I think we can say that a little Tudie isn't going to kill most of you and some of you may actually benefit from the "Tudie Effects". So it's a personal choice and you can make an educated decision once Deleted User posts his results.

It would be nice if the vendors could afford to have their Kava tested and go ahead and declare the percentage of Tudie in each batch. Then let the public decide if they want it or not. Deleted User, do you want to start a testing business? It might help you recoup the cost of all that fancy lab equipment you purchased. It might also help our vendors negotiate a better deal from the farmers if they find adulteration.
 

ApéroNoble

The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
Shall there be a disclaimer upon all reviews of Vanuatu kava so those new to the forum will know the reviews may not be utterly indicative of kava reviewed?
 

ApéroNoble

The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
Also understand that I really don't have a horse in this race. I'm a strong advocate for noble kava, but I have no reason to malign anyone's product. I'm not a vendor, I receive no favors from any vendor, I just report it like I see it. I'm a very vocal and active advocate of kava, and I want it to remain safe and legal because I know it can be of great benefit to many. To this end, I take the recommendations of Dr. Lebot very seriously. I know some disagree, but this is my position and my motivation.

Garry
You seek and dig for the truth and if the forum does not stay devoted in this quest of seeing things clearly, rooting out the truth wherever the chips may fall, it becomes more of a social forum; not that there is anything wrong with folks joining for this per se
 
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Deleted User01

Shall there be a disclaimer upon all reviews of Vanuatu kava so those new to the forum will know the reviews may not be utterly indicative of kava reviewed?
@Noueky, it would be hard to know if the Kava had Tudie on any particular date but you bring up a good point. I guess the big question is "how long as this been going on"? (I almost started singing the song. :rolleyes:)
 

Steve T

Kava Enthusiast
Thank you for this info Deleted User. I haven't had a single positive experience with Vanuatu kavas yet, except for Chris's in his sampler. I think this should largely be common sense as well. It's hard to create a business model on a plant which takes 5 years to grow and harvest. Some whiskey companies barrel their products for 4-5 years and let it sit there, but obviously they have brand names and millions of dollars per year in profits. Hell, even I'll wander off from work, stare at the wall, or look at kavaforums for 10 minutes without clocking out. If I was an impoverished Vanuatu farmer with like 10 volunteer cops on the entire island I'd definitely spike my kava with tudei. It would be more weight to sell, the effects would be strong, and it won't kill anyone. Tobacco companies do much worse and financially they are doing fine. I just don't want to drink any shit from Vanuatu, TBH.
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
@Noueky we definitely seek the root of the matter (figuratively, and actually...literally). If our vendors respond accordingly, instead of reacting in defense to this information we'll know who's worth their salt.

In the real light of it, I can say this; I purchased and consumed labeled variety tudei kava for over a year, and yes it's stronger, and yes the less desired effects are FAR more than with noble variety. In fact, the profile of non-nobles just became "kava" to me. We are all adults here (at least as far as I can verify) and we can make our own decisions. Our decision collectively now isn't whether we should or shouldn't consume it, as that still remains a personal decision based on the informed consumer. You have the information, the pros and cons, and the risks. Our decision now is whether or not we take on the responsibility of helping to creating that informed consumer. If the FDA requires product labels that list ingredients and contents on my orange juice, so should we not hold kava suppliers (vendors need to take heed and inquiry too) to the same standard or at least a similar standard? I personally cannot blame the farmers, just like Steve stated. Hell they're probably atrociously underpaid as it is. To lose an entire crop would probably be more devastating to a farmer in Vanuatu than we can possibly imagine. It will take a while to completely phase out the crop cycle, but calling on our vendors to press suppliers would probably be the best option.

@Wigman 100% agree. Our buying power is the ultimate power in the situation.

Also, if you're a vendor and you're reading this, please don't turn a blind eye to this. We need participation to help make the kava industry as solid as possible. If we run around scared of the attention we might bring on kava, we'll never move forward. Wouldn't it look better to the critical eye that we're moving forward with pure standards and regulating our own industry than if we sit stagnant, aware the information, but too worried to perform?
 
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Deleted User01

@Noueky we definitely seek the root of the matter (figuratively, and actually...literally). If our vendors respond accordingly, instead of reacting in defense to this information we'll know who's worth their salt.
on collectively now isn't whether we should or shouldn't consume it, as that still remains a personal decision based on the informed consumer. You have the information, the pros and cons, and the risks. Our decision now is whether or not we take on the responsibility of helping to creating that informed consumer.
My sentiments exactly. Everyone has their own Kava needs and they can make "informed" decisions. And the Vendors need to realize that we don't blame them. Even the wholesalers are getting burned. The blame is with the farmer who is trying to stretch his crop and make a little bit more money. But sorry Kapm, I don't give the farmer a free pass just because he is poor. And I don't give the Wholesalers a free pass either because they make the situation worse by screwing the farmer. The vendors can put pressure that will travel downstream to the Wholesaler and then to the farmer and maybe Kava from Vanuatu is 5 bucks a pound more in the future. Maybe that is the price you pay for pure unadulterated Kava.
 

ApéroNoble

The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/the-safety-of-kava-how-to-test-yours.2576/#post-32224

I'd never thoroughly read the above until now, this is a major problem. I can only imagine how confusing it must be to the average person coming here seeking information on kava in hopes of help. I've been in the Health/Nutrition field over 15 years and it has taken quite some time viewing the forum to become privy to the various issues surrounding kava. It is sad but I could see why some viewing the forum would think forget this, there is just too much hassle, time, and shady dealings involved with kava
 

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
....Revised test results will be posted in another thread shortly. Meanwhile, I welcome your questions and comments....
Great information. Thanks for the immense time and effort you are putting into your testing. I really like your "scientific" approach. (y)

I did my little soapbox thing already the other day, so I'll try not to blather too much. But I would like to add to your post... Although I think you are providing value information that addresses one important piece of the puzzle as it pertains to kava safety, I believe there is a piece of information that is seriously lacking. It's nice to know whether or a not a kava contains tudei or not, but what is missing IMO is a method for determining the quantity of tudei contained in a kava and also the research that is needed to evaluate the effects of tudei on the human body for a "given" amount of tudei. In fact I think using the term tudei is really a misnomer for what I'm asking for. I believe you should consider dropping the terms noble and tudei in your discussion altogether and consider instead focusing your energy on determining whether "kava" contains ::fkb:: or not, and if so, to what degree. I could blather lots more about it, but I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make and in no way is it my intent to belittle the extremely great stuff you are doing for us. Nor am I implying that what I ask for is all up to you to do. ::happyshell::

I would also like to give @violet a shout out who has also spent a tremendous amount of time trying to ring the bell on spiked kava literally months ago. (y)

I'm always here to blather whenever you want me to. ::bow2::
 

ApéroNoble

The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
When it comes to drinking only noble kava, we may have set a mark that is difficult to hit right now. What follows covers two topics: the development of my test methods, and the current Vanuatu kava situation in general. It's a long read, but it's information that everyone should be aware of, so please take the time.

When we got word from Dr Lebot via Andrew that tuday should not be consumed, there was a general assumption that all kava we received was either noble or not. There was little conversation about adulteration, and everyone was merrily testing and posting, declaring various kavas to be yellow or orange, with no real surprises other than the Koniak incident.

I began to develop my methodology based on the same assumption, that kava was either noble or it wasn't. I began by testing known tuday (HKC Tuday, Hawaiian ISA) and assumed known noble (Melo Melo & Boroguru). I selected a visible light range of 580-630nm (medium yellow/red) as the area of interest, and established a standard for the slope in that area of the transmittance spectra. This standard was the basis for the information in my "Test Results" thread beginning June 16.

With all samples tested, I ordered some kava from GHK to test (and drink!). This was the real beginning of the revelation; this kava tested a world apart from all previous tests. Much lighter yellow, and a very distinctive spectra. At first I thought this must be a trait of Hawaiian kava, so I asked Dr Lebot about it. He stated that all noble should test about the same regardless of origin. We traded photos, and he suggested that spiking with tuday might be the issue. Since GHK kava was the source of the revelation, I started conversing with Chris - and he was not too surprised. His understanding was that adulteration was fairly common in Vanuatu kava, and this was probably what I was finding. In other words, my assumed noble standard might not be as noble as I thought. I then ordered GHK Boroguru and Qili Leka Fiji, and they tested quite well also.

Though I had considered adulteration before, I viewed it as a side project. I had a theory about how to detect it, and began intentional adulteration tests. The addition of tuday to noble doesn't affect the 580-630nm range a lot, but it does have a marked effect on the lower scale (green/light yellow). I recalculated all previous data using 500-630nm as a standard, and a clear pattern emerged. Since my prior tests used very little kava, I had plenty left over for further tests. I retested all original samples plus a wide selection of GHK, including Hawaiian, Vanuatu, and Fiji cultivars. Compiling this data along with that from numerous intentionally adulterated samples, I now had three quite distinct categories: noble, adulterated, and tuday.

Many more conversations followed, my revised methodology was reviewed and confirmed, and I began to develop a much better picture of the kava situation in Vanuatu. My main source of information has been Dr. Lebot, but I have also contacted vendors and Vanuatu suppliers directly. All of the information lines up: Vanuatu kava is largely adulterated with tuday. It grows faster, it isn't subject to disease, and no one can visually tell the difference once it's harvested. Most suppliers never visit the farms they buy from, which are nearly always on a different island. The COA from Vanuatu is often misrepresented, and the Kava Act isn't well enforced. And just to give you a perspective, the Kava Act actually lists 12 Noble cultivars, 79 Medicinal cultivars, and 126 Tuday cultivars - so there's a lot of temptation out there.

Though this has been going on for a long time I suspect it will get worse, at least for a while. Farmers in Vanuatu know that the Kava Act may soon be better enforced, and awareness of the noble vs tuday controversy is increasing among consumers. It's likely that many farmers are harvesting and selling large amounts of tuday/isa, fearing that it may soon become worthless.

The net result is that much of what we assume to be noble kava is not pure. When adulteration is present, it is generally 25% or less. While certainly not desirable, this isn't a cause for major alarm to all - but it is something all should be aware of.

I can't over-emphasize this point: Our vendors are not to blame. Some may be aware of the issue to varying degrees, but to the best of my knowledge there are none who claim their kava is noble while knowing for certain it isn't. We're all in the same boat here, so please understand I'm not pointing the finger at anyone.

Also understand that I really don't have a horse in this race. I'm a strong advocate for noble kava, but I have no reason to malign anyone's product. I'm not a vendor, I receive no favors from any vendor, I just report it like I see it. I'm a very vocal and active advocate of kava, and I want it to remain safe and legal because I know it can be of great benefit to many. To this end, I take the recommendations of Dr. Lebot very seriously. I know some disagree, but this is my position and my motivation.

I've not been in the habit of quoting emails, but I will make two exceptions, just to add some authenticity to my statements:

8/4/2014
Dr. Lebot,
I've run into a puzzling issue in my testing. Known tudei is obvious in color and spectra, with a definite red coloration and sharp slope, and what I am assuming to be noble Vanuatu kava is lighter shades of yellow, occasionally with some very slight red, and a medium slope.
But all Hawaiian grown cultivars I have tested - along with only one Vanuatu sample - are extremely light yellow, with a very shallow slope...
Is this simply a characteristic of Hawaiian kava, or is it possible that many of the Vanuatu products we receive in the USA are adulterated to some degree?

Dear Garry,
Yes, different varieties are mixed in bags and adulteration is frequent, it varies from batch to batch, this is common on the local market here. In a bag of "noble", you will have roots of two days etc....
The consequence is that they can be ground together and mixed.
Hawaiian cultivars should be light yellow, and so should be nobles from vanuatu, unless they have been mixed with other.

8/11/2014
Dr. Lebot,
VRRP Ltd is the supplier of the (edited) and (edited) which tests as adulterated, as well as the instant kava we spoke of earlier. This is also the company that supplies (edited) in the US. Is it possible his supplier would ship kava containing tudei?

Dear Garry,
Yes it is possible. Please take a map: suppliers are based in Port Vila on Efate where kava is not cultivated, suppliers do not visit farmers and most of them cannot recognize the different varieties, they are traders. Farmers are cultivating kava in the outer islands and plant two day varieties because they grow faster, if traders ask them for noble kavas, farmers can lie, they do it frequently and nobody visit their farms. So it is possible that this supplier believes that he is shipping noble kava while he is shipping two day.


Though the situation looks a bit bleak for consumers and vendors right now, in the long run this will be good for kava. The German ban has been reversed, efforts are underway to have kava added to the Codex Alimentarius (and the US equivalent), Vanuatu is taking steps to ensure only noble kava is exported, and Dr. Lebot is moving forward in developing a universally accepted standard for colorimetric evaluation.

For our part, I encourage all consumers and vendors to perform the "simple test" on every batch of kava they receive. It's not foolproof, but it will positively identify all tuday, and most adulteration above 50%. An improved version of this test is in the works, and will be made available through the Forum soon. Additionally, I would be happy to test any kava for any member here, PM me for my address.

If we - as consumers and vendors - demand noble kava, it will happen.

Revised test results will be posted in another thread shortly. Meanwhile, I welcome your questions and comments.

Thank you,
Garry
"With all samples tested, I ordered some kava from GHK to test (and drink!). This was the real beginning of the revelation; this kava tested a world apart from all previous tests. Much lighter yellow, and a very distinctive spectra. At first I thought this must be a trait of Hawaiian kava, so I asked Dr Lebot about it. He stated that all noble should test about the same regardless of origin. We traded photos, and he suggested that spiking with tuday might be the issue. Since GHK kava was the source of the revelation, I started conversing with Chris - and he was not too surprised. His understanding was that adulteration was fairly common in Vanuatu kava, and this was probably what I was finding. In other words, my assumed noble standard might not be as noble as I thought. I then ordered GHK Boroguru and Qili Leka Fiji, and they tested quite well also."


it would seem then that only Solomon's Island is truly noble not the Boroguru?
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
Headhodge, without giving away too much information he has discovered a way to figure rough percentages of adulteration.
 
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Deleted User01

Why am I always the last one to know??? ::confused2::
Also, I forgot to say.... I'm happy to announce to everyone that I just started writing my new book: "Fifty Shades of Kava". Coming soon to a Kindle near you. :bookworm:
Hey, I was going to write a book called "Fifty Shades of Yellow" but now you ruined it for me. :banghead: Of course I was going to steal all of Deleted User's data so I could write it. :oops:
Anyway, looks like Deleted User has more results to post and then we get "the rest of the story". I think Deleted User's treatise should be published in the Harvard Kava Review. :LOL:
 

kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
Deleted User, what has your experience been with non-Vanuatu kavas? Is spiking nearly as common with them?
 
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