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Using tudei and isa kavas safely

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
There is a lot of misinformation around about tudei and isa kavas. The suggestion put about is that they are somehow bad or contaminated. The truth is that they are merely a different chemotype containing a much higher amount of the heavier kavalactones. These kavas won't give you a wildly pleasant experience if you are a recreational user but their use for chronic pain and insomnia can't be disputed.

There are some common sense rules that you should consider before using these kavas. Firstly be sure to drink a "known" kava. There are more and more vendors selling tudei and isa kavas these days now that the truth is coming out about them. These kavas have generally been drunk by a lot of people before you got your bag. If they were selling kava that was making people sick every time they drank it they wouldn't be selling it for long. Look for reviews on the site but more importantly off the site.

Secondly moderate your consumption. Start off with a small amount to see how it makes you feel. 1 or 2 tablespoons of a tudei/isa kava won't knock you out but may still give you a morning glow. As you go along you can learn to judge how much of these kavas you need to give you the desired body/sedative effects without giving you negative effects the next day.

Lastly remember to stick to the golden rules of kava drinking no matter what kava you drink. Keep yourself well hydrated, learn to judge when enough is enough and listen to your mind and body to tell you when to drink more and when to stop.

A few vendors selling tudei/isa kavas now are kava.com, kava by rex and Root of Happiness. Others can be found but do your homework. As time goes on and the witch hunt against these kavas diminishes I'm sure there will be more and more vendors offering these kavas and I will be happy to try all of them.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
sigh... not again :)

Maybe true, maybe not but plenty of people are drinking it and finding relief from it. Personally I love to blend a little in with my noble and my liver test results are the same as ever.
 

Alia

'Awa Grower/Collector
In fact, I ve never experienced any stomach discomfort from alcohol and never had any health problems related to booze despite consuming buckets of beer in my 20s. Booze gets demonised. It is nothing more than normal juice, just a bit fermented. We must stop demonising it. Lots of people sell it. If booze was making people sick, would anyone sell it?

;)
Nevertheless, I like Othellos' commentary on alcohol consumption "I could well wish courtesy would invent some other custom of entertainment".
At least here in Hawai'i it seems nearly the "root" of all evil. With traditionally consumed 'awa being the root of all good. That is just my mana'o.
Having seen, read and experinced many , many negative results from alcohol consumption. ...but let's not argue the point.
 

Groggy

Kava aficionado
Admin
Having seen, read and experinced many , many negative results from alcohol consumption. ...but let's not argue the point.
I couldn't agree more, but these (positive ;)) discussions gives us all a better understanding of the pros and cons of consuming it or not. I am in the noble camp due to the stupid amount of kavas available, I don't feel a need to delve into any other variety.
 

Intrepidus_dux

Kava O.G.
It's good to see both sides here though it may cause some uncomfortable feelings for both of you. It's all simply a good reference for anyone who is researching it.
 

Pauluk

Kava Enthusiast
I had an aluball of Tudei a couple of nights ago. I really liked it. Im very sensitive to kava. I don't need much,
2 balls of supreme over 3 or 4 hours is a good session for me.

i wanted to try it as many kavas make me edgy. And some that dont initially, make me edgy on the 2nd ball. So far im only using supreme and stone because if this. The Tudei seemed gentler than supreme, no numbness in the mouth and less of a rush of heavy. But after a while i noticed more relaxtion and fancied lying down. I couldnt as i was cooking. I at dinner, then finished the kava. And went to bed. The relaxing effects werent really diminished by eating. And i felt as usual the next morning. Just one more variety that works for me i guess.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Johnson TE, Hermanson D, Wang L, Kassie F, Upadhyaya P, O'Sullivan MG, Hecht SS, Lu J, Xing C., Lung tumorigenesis suppressing effects of a commercial kava extract and its selected compounds in A/J mice.

Am J Chin Med 39(4): 727-42; 2011. Johnson et al. (2011) examined the tumour-preventive effects of kava and flavokavins in mice16 . Commercial kava at 10 mg/g of diet (during 22 weeks) was effective, so were the flavokavins. The latter, however, were less effective than their abundance in the kava sample, which led the authors to the conclusion that other constituents in kava must participate in the effect. The liver and liver function tests were monitored in this study, with no hints to liver toxicity.

Li X, Liu Z, Xu X, Blair CA, Sun Z, Xie J, Lilly MB, Zi X., Kava components down-regulate expression of AR and AR splice variants and reduce growth in patient-derived prostate cancer xenografts in mice. PLoS One 7(2): e31213; 2012

Li et al. (2012) demonstrated cancer-preventive effects of kava and flavokavin in mice17 . The kava used in this study was a commercial preparation, for which the analysis points to a ‘non-noble’ kava material. Whereas the treatment with flavokavin B at an intraperitoneal dose of 200 mg/kg for 28 days did not induce toxicity, the corresponding kava extract at an oral dose of 6 g/kg for 18 days led to some changes in liver histology, which points to a yet unknown other constituent of kava as a potential (albeit rather weak) hepatotoxin in this ‘non-noble’ kava material. I hope that these studies clarify the supposed “toxicity" of flavokavains and the notion that since certain varieties have higher amounts that it doesn’t make them more toxic.

Abu N, Ho WY, Yeap SK, Akhtar MN, Abdullah MP, Omar AR, Alitheen NB, The flavokawains: uprising medicinal chalcones. Cancer Cell Int. 13(1): 102; 2013. Abu et al. (2013) reviewed the pharmacological properties of flavokavins, mainly their anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer effects19. They also examined the toxicological effects of flavokavins, but cannot confirm toxicity of flavokavin B.

Liu Z, Xu X, Li X, Liu S, Simoneau AR, He F, Wu XR, Zi X., Kava chalcone, flavokawain A, inhibits urothelial tumorigenesis in the UPII-SV40T transgenic mouse model. Cancer Prev Res 6(12): 1365-75; 2013. Liu et al. (2013) demonstrated cancer-preventive effects of flavokavin A in mice in a 318-day study with exposure to 6 mg flavokavin A per gram of food20 . No noticeable toxicity was observed.

Abu N, Mohamed NE, Yeap SK, Lim KL, Akhtar MN, Zulfadli AJ, Kee BB, Abdullah MP, Omar AR, Alitheen NB, In vivo anti-tumor effects of flavokawain A in 4T1 breast cancer cell-challenged mice. Anticancer Agents Med Chem 15(7): 905-15; 2015. Abu et al. (2015) reported anti-tumour effects of flavokavin A in mice. This observation fits to epidemiological observations of a lower cancer incidence with the consumption of kava.

Abu N, Mohamed NE, Yeap SK, Lim KL, Akhtar MN, Zulfadli AJ, Kee BB, Abdullah MP, Omar AR, Alitheen NB. In vivo antitumor and antimetastatic effects of flavokawain B in 4T1 breast cancer cell-challenged mice. Drug Des Devel Ther 9: 1401-17; 2015. The same group also examined anti-tumour effects of synthetic flavokavin B in mice. 50 mg/kg daily for 28 days did apparently not cause toxicity, which contradicts other reports cited in the 2012 ACP-MTS report. Abu N, Mohameda NE, Tangarajoo N, Yeap SK, Akhtar MN, Abdullah MP, Omar AR, Alitheen NB. In vitro Toxicity and in vivo Immunomodulatory Effects of Flavokawain A and Flavokawain B in Balb/C Mice. Nat Prod Commun 10(7): 1199-202; 2015Ibid Abu et a. (2015) also examined flavokavins through in vitro assays on cytotoxicity, next to their antiinflammatory effects in mice. Neither flavokavin A nor flavokavin B caused mortality, and all mice were observed as behaving normally after the period of treatment.

Just a few studies showing the lack of evidence for any toxicity of FKB. Plenty more available.
 

kasa_balavu

Yaqona Dina
I had an aluball of Tudei a couple of nights ago.... Just one more variety that works for me i guess.
Glad to hear the product you tried didn't make you sick. Tudei isn't a cultivar/variety. It's the collective name of a whole category of kava cultivars from Vanuatu, the majority of which will absolutely *not* work as pleasantly as you described for you or anyone else.

Most tudei kava isn't sold pure, but instead mixed with noble kava to dampen its terrible side-effects.


Tudei kava is best avoided, but if you must try it, get it from a vendor who grew it themselves or can at least tell you what cultivar you're consuming, and who has independent lab results for their kava.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Glad to hear the product you tried didn't make you sick. Tudei isn't a cultivar/variety. It's the collective name of a whole category of kava cultivars from Vanuatu, the majority of which will absolutely *not* work as pleasantly as you described for you or anyone else.

Most tudei kava isn't sold pure, but instead mixed with noble kava to dampen its terrible side-effects.


Tudei kava is best avoided, but if you must try it, get it from a vendor who grew it themselves or can at least tell you what cultivar you're consuming, and who has independent lab results for their kava.
Both Root of Happiness and kava.com have their own labs. @Kojo Douglas visited the kava.com lab and was very impressed. I've spent hours talking to Tyler from ROH about their setup over there so I'm confident on those two. The other isa's I've tried have been from less reputable sources but I've still been fine.

Hopefully there's no one spiking tudei with noble, we wouldn't want that now.
 

klimbo

Newbie
In fact, I ve never experienced any stomach discomfort from alcohol and never had any health problems related to booze despite consuming buckets of beer in my 20s. Booze gets demonised. It is nothing more than normal juice, just a bit fermented. We must stop demonising it. Lots of people sell it. If booze was making people sick, would anyone sell it? Bluestacks Kodi Lucky Patcher


;)
All things considered, I like Othellos' editorial on liquor utilization "I could well wish obligingness would develop some other custom of diversion".

At any rate here in Hawai'i it appears to be about the "root" of all underhanded. With generally expended 'awa being the foundation of all great. That is only my mana'o.


Having seen, read and experinced numerous , many negative outcomes from liquor utilization. ...in any case, how about we not contend the point.
 
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