Where the Koniak?
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kastom_lif
Kava Lover
Hem i stap long PNG.
kastom_lif
Kava Lover
Iwi is also from PNG, isn't it? That stuff is pretty wild.
John Sanday
Kava Curious
Iwi and Isa are the same thing, they both mean Kava but they are two descriptions of same thing in the two different languages of the Madang area. I have been exporting PNG Isa since 2003. 2003 was when I started my kava business in PNG and I have been drinking this PNG Isa kava in copious gallons since then and matter of fact have been drinking everyday for long stretches of time that went into months. I still drink this stuff and I love it. I have my family living in Brisbane, Australia and i usually do my normal health/blood checks every 6 months with my doctor here and I can guarantee you my liver is in perfect condition. All this talk about Tudei hepatotoxicity is a bit overblown. Tudei is harmless to the liver when prepared in the traditional way. I am living proof. I have my clients in Fiji who prefer to drink PNG Isa than even the Fiji Kavas. They say it gives them a clearer dope and a deeper sleep. I have to try to curate my words as much so as to control the conflict that I also sell this stuff so I don't want to be thought of over promoting it. The Vanuatu Tudei is perhaps the extreme left of Tudei Kavas and the PNG Isa is not a tudei of that type as you can tell from the "dope" effect you get from it when mixed in a good watery way. Anyway, good kava blessings to all…...
Thank you for coming here and letting us know this. It helps us formulate a more complete view of the kava industry. I have to ask though, drinking it daily, do you have the negative skin effects? I really wonder sometimes what was actually in that isa I drank back in the in day. Had the bleeding skin thing going on from Hawaiian grown isa back in maybe 2010-2011. Maybe it's something to do with the soil type, but man did it feel awful.
And for me, the hepatoxicity of non-noble, while a concern, is less of a concern than someone interpreting tudei to mean "platinum grade" or something similar. We don't want newbies to be sickened by an overly strong kava on their first foray into it. That and when the bag says "noble" we want it to be noble. Some simple goals have been overblown by others to make it seem that testers want to bring down the kava industry. I speak for myself when I say it, but I want truth, responsibility, and integrity in advertising when it comes to the type of kava in the bag, whether we perceive tudei as harmful, or 100% completely benign.
Again, glad to have you. I hope you can further help us expand our understanding of the kava industry, as it seems you have a very unique viewpoint
HeadHodge
Bula To Eternity
Thank you for bringing some sanity to the asylum.
Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
It was also really well-written
John Sanday
Kava Curious
Thanks guys, yes, i also do get kanikani or dermopathy. I find, perhaps like you, that the intensity of the dermopathy is stronger in winter especially when I'm in Australia. I do get kanikani (Fijian for dermopathy) especially if I drink it in more concentrated doses. I have also found a kind of optimum range of water/Isa concentration that works for me both for "dope" and quality of sleep plus lighter dermopathy. The trick for me is not to mix it far too thick or too "sosoko" (Fijian for thick concentration). Another variable to consider is the cleanliness of the Kava and how it was prepared and processed for consumption. The cleaner the kava the better the condition of the dermopathy and the later arrival of it. It is also my experience that good cleaned waka (roots) will allow you to drink kava and the time of the onset of dermopathy will be extended out. Whenever I start to feel "kanikani" coming on I will stop for a day or two or just drink lightly then it'll go away then I can go for another extended run.
Just for the info of this forum, let me share with you a small story and how all you Kava Kastomas there have an impact in the life of Papua New Guinean kava farmers in the middle of the dense jungle. I can tell you all that probably the best quality Kava I buy in PNG comes from a Village that is a 2 and a half day walk to the road. The farmers, after preparing their dried kava then employ young men from the village to carry their kava loads (up to 500kg) to the main road. Now, that jungle walk to the road takes 2 and half days. They have their resting points with makeshift bush houses. When they get to the road, they will call our guys who drive out and collect and bring them to the factory. We keep them at home for three or four days , feed them well, rest them up and the drive them back to the bush track turn off where we say our goodbyes and they then track back up to their village. It is a humbling and deeply meaningful experience each time they come down and their kava is impeccably washed and dried, just beautiful. They are able to buy their village supplies, hardware etc to take back from their kava sales. We have offered several times to send a team up to help them but they say the track is not for the town boys as they are walking through heavy jungle where snakes, mosquitoes, spiders, lizards etc are plentiful. They say, they know the terrain well so its better they do it.
In closing, let me just say that the Vanuatu Tudei variety is a real extreme Kava that knocks you about for two days. Our PNG Kava does not have the same effect, Whilst its chemotype and A test coloration places it in the Tudei nomenclature, it is nowhere near the extreme Vanuatu Tudei variety. Sadly this nomenclature has thrown all kava's outside the noble chemotype and A test color standard into the bad kava basket. I have said before, there is no bad kava. Each kava has its use either as a traditional medicine, poultice, or for spiritual preparation for war in the old times. Just choose which kava variety to use for the occasion and purpose you have at that time. There is no such thing as a bad kava. Kava blessings to all.
Just for the info of this forum, let me share with you a small story and how all you Kava Kastomas there have an impact in the life of Papua New Guinean kava farmers in the middle of the dense jungle. I can tell you all that probably the best quality Kava I buy in PNG comes from a Village that is a 2 and a half day walk to the road. The farmers, after preparing their dried kava then employ young men from the village to carry their kava loads (up to 500kg) to the main road. Now, that jungle walk to the road takes 2 and half days. They have their resting points with makeshift bush houses. When they get to the road, they will call our guys who drive out and collect and bring them to the factory. We keep them at home for three or four days , feed them well, rest them up and the drive them back to the bush track turn off where we say our goodbyes and they then track back up to their village. It is a humbling and deeply meaningful experience each time they come down and their kava is impeccably washed and dried, just beautiful. They are able to buy their village supplies, hardware etc to take back from their kava sales. We have offered several times to send a team up to help them but they say the track is not for the town boys as they are walking through heavy jungle where snakes, mosquitoes, spiders, lizards etc are plentiful. They say, they know the terrain well so its better they do it.
In closing, let me just say that the Vanuatu Tudei variety is a real extreme Kava that knocks you about for two days. Our PNG Kava does not have the same effect, Whilst its chemotype and A test coloration places it in the Tudei nomenclature, it is nowhere near the extreme Vanuatu Tudei variety. Sadly this nomenclature has thrown all kava's outside the noble chemotype and A test color standard into the bad kava basket. I have said before, there is no bad kava. Each kava has its use either as a traditional medicine, poultice, or for spiritual preparation for war in the old times. Just choose which kava variety to use for the occasion and purpose you have at that time. There is no such thing as a bad kava. Kava blessings to all.
That's fascinating, and humbling. It's so easy to just scoop kava out of the bag and not think about what kind of work went into preparing it for consumption.
I hope you don't mind me asking, but how did you get into kava as a business for yourself?
kastom_lif
Kava Lover
Thank you @John Sanday for sharing your knowledge of PNG kava.
Do the farmers trade with fellow wantoks in town, or are there other groups there that buy and sell with farmers? Do people in town (I'm presuming Madang) drink kava?
Uodate: after some more research, some of this kava may be coming through Lae, not Madang.
Can you say where, generally, the farmers live? (This is not a "show me the farm", post) I'm really curious about which cultures in PNG grow kava and how they use it traditionally.
Do the farmers trade with fellow wantoks in town, or are there other groups there that buy and sell with farmers? Do people in town (I'm presuming Madang) drink kava?
Uodate: after some more research, some of this kava may be coming through Lae, not Madang.
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John Sanday
Kava Curious
Thanks for the question. I am born and bred in Fiji and grew up with uncles, grandfathers and granduncles from the Fijian indigenous side of me and from an early age had to prepare kava (yaqona) for them and was grateful for sitting around listening to their knowledge being shared over the Tanoa for most of my young life. I have since kept a very close connection with the Yaqona culture and hold it in deep reverence for the good things it gives mankind. It is something that brings the generations together in close proximity around a Tanoa and a great and wonderful time for a young person to harvest (inadvertently I might add) the great and vast knowledge built up over multi generations. Yaqona also brings peace and stability through its use as in peace ceremonies from bitter feuds, battles or personal fights. Yaqona is also used in Fijian ceremonies of arranging and attending to marriages, the farewelling of loved ones in funerals, the coming together of families and friends etc etc, so it is a most wonderful plant when looked through that prism od what it can facilitate.
I also was a Kava farmer as a young man in the hills of Tailevu North, Fiji for many years before the sport of rugby union took me away and into the world. But through all of that I have always kept a close connection to my yaqona. I could go on but I might just leave it at that and wish you all good Kava blessings for the day.
recentreturn
Kava Enthusiast
Isa gives a "clearer dope"? I've been looking for what I call "dreamy" kava, but I am starting to think that what I am really intending to communicate by that is something that is both relaxing but also very clear-headed and clean feeling. (Excited to order some more KT Kadavu that might fit the bill for me). I am surprised to hear that Tudei is "clearer," given that so many people describe it as intoxicating. Or by "clearer," do you just mean more pronounced?
John Sanday
Kava Curious
well it is the feedback I get from people drinking this and vindicated by my own experience that PNG Kava (not Tudei) gives a clearer dope and a halo effect the next morning. These conditions can only come about if the PNG Kava is mixed at the right concentration, which is not too thick but more thicker than a watery mix. If I can explain it another way, the dope creeps up on you and whilst you are lucid and clear in your thinking and conversing, you also recognize and feel that you the "dope" is creeping up on you quietly and you will know at which point you are ready to go to bed to enjoy a good deep sleep. Od course any kava, noble included, will give you a hangover if it is mixed too strong and concentrated and you drink too much of it.
So please let me be clear that I am talking about PNG Kava not Tudei generally as there are several varieties of Tudei. Cheers,
HeadHodge
Bula To Eternity
@John Sanday's talk of kava cleanliness and reduced dermo seems to give creedence to reports that consuming kava with the external makas removed first from the root before grinding, seems to reduce dermo. Kapm reported previously (somewhere) that since he started consuming noble kava that his dermo decreased. But Im wondering if its really removing the external makas (bark) that is really helping.
Zac Imiola (Herbalist)
Kava Connoisseur
Good quality is good quality.
Where do I buy some ?
Where do I buy some ?
John Sanday
Kava Curious
Yes, traditionally in Fiji, kava bark is scraped off at harvest time usually in a running creek or stream. After it is dried, we usually give the kava another good scrape before pounding into powder and drunk. That should give you some idea as to how Kava should be prepared, that the bark should be removed first. Unfortunately, the middlemen and traders who by and large do not consume or drink yaqona, just throw in the peelings and unpeeled young stems and pound and market as premium Fiji Kava. I am no scientist but my empirical proof of this is through my own experience. At first when we started with trading and exporting Koniak, I used to experience very heavy dermopathy. This was because the PNG farmers didn't harvest and prepare the kava in the traditional Fijian way. It took us several years to train the farmers and maintain awareness in how to clean and wash the kava during harvesting. Those Kavas that satisfy our factory "cleanliness" test are usually the better quality and we again run through a major scraping and cleaning exercise in our factory to clean the kava of all bark. Since then, I don't get strong attacks of dermopathy, In fact the effect is quite positive in that it tightens the skin and gives it a slight sheen. As long as you maintain good intake levels this sheen will stay. Maybe take a day or two off your drinking cycle and then start again. So, in a nutshell, yes, I can vouch very heavily that the bark plays a very heavy role in the onset and effect of dermopathy. For our Koniak, all our kava is debarked very well before it is processed for export because I also am a heavy user of the kava we produce from our FDA registered factory in Port Moresby. Kava blessing to all
John Sanday
Kava Curious
Oh, can I also share a lighthearted story about our Koniak for the benefit of all. I introduced my wife to Koniak, she is a late convert. In the last few years I used to notice that she was drinking more of the Koniak kava than me. It worried me to the point where I sat her down and asked her gently if she was unhappy thus her increased consumption rate of koniak. To my utter surprise she replied along these lines…." oh no, i drink the kava to encourage the onset of kanikani (Fijian for dermopathy), to which I was quite stunned. On further prodding she then said, the dermopathy allows me to shed my skin and with a good skin scrubbing medium, I am able to remove my old skin and allow new skin to shine, "its my natural botox" those were her actual words. She swears by that right up to this very moment. Needless to say that whilst my face showed concern, my heart was very settled and now I even prepare our daily kava basin, much to her delight………there's more to Kava than just a good night's sleep…Kava blessings
HeadHodge
Bula To Eternity
@John Sanday Awesome!!
SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
It makes sense to me that the cleanliness and quality of the material is going to play a part but it also seems like the cultivar used is rarely considered when it comes to non noble kava. Anything that is not noble or wild seems to be lumped into the ominous Tudei category regardless of where it's grown or what cultivar it is. Surely, there are varieties of ISA or Vanuatu tudei that are more responsible for the negative effects and others that are more enjoyable or medicinal?
I've had "tudei" kava that was so heavy, I felt like I was on a high dose of valium the next day and I've had some that were so weak, I could barely tell it was kava (KKF). I've also had kava that tested as tudei and didn't have next day effects.
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