Giving it up ...

[hotwired]

After a month or so of trying different (micronized) kava's I've decided my brain chemistry isn't compatible. My main reasons are:
1. It almost always causes insomnia. I'm relaxed but it's like the "last switch" to sleep is stuck. When I do Kava, even as early as 3 PM, I can count on no sleep unless I've taken Phenibut that morning. I've tried Nene, Boroguru, and Pouni Ono micronized. About a TBSP of Nene or PO early, like 3.30 or 4, then a little B just before dinner (an hour later), then bed around 9 pm. Even if I skip the B and stick with the one "dose" of PO or Nene, I get little sleep. Almost dead opposite of what it does for everyone else.

2. I'm "unavailable" to my family. I can do things, but like hanging a picture takes an almost super human amount of mental effort on any Kava (for me). I check my daughter's homework but it's extremely laborious.

3. All the "life giving" things I like to do are unavailable or undesirable to me on Kava. I cannot "pleasure read" and even playing guitar (my first love) is very mechanical and I only do it for 5-6 minutes, half heartedly. In the mid nineties I had a 18 month "bout" with a certain "Bolivian marching powder" and it produced those same effects. It "turns down" the "volume button" on life itself for me. Great buzz, great feeling, but that's all I have when I do Kava ... everything that makes me "me" is sort of dimmed down and out of reach.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that I've got a different brain chemistry than "earthlings" (non ADHD people). That's all. Not a big deal but very perplexing. I'd love to hear any similar stories so I don't feel COMPLETELY different! I've got quite a bit left so I'll probably just do it once a week ... when I've got nothing to do the next day!!

 

[raginred]

i'm so sorry. i was expecting to open your thread and here "i cant handle the taste" or "it does nothing for me" and i would give you words of encouragement. but for the reasons you list, i have nothing to counter offer. peace and love man

 

[hotwired]

Hey @raginred those words are still pretty encouraging, thanks for caring! I suspect it's a simple brain chemistry thing. When I had my "bout" with that "other" powder in my youth, I bloated up from 180 LBS to 260 in one year. Most (like 99.99%) lose weight ... in fact it's the "hallmark" of that addiction. Well, hey, I can take succor and solace in the fact that I'm "special"! haha! (And I won't give it up 100% but I just don't want to have those qualities I listed as daily companions...)
Peace and Love right back to you my man.

 

[raginred]

just wondering, are you on adhd medication?? maybe the combination of the two is what's inhibiting the effects?? (please note i am NOT a doctor and i am in NO WAY encouraging you to be noncompliant on your meds....)

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

That would be a very big factor lol.

 

[hotwired]

No, I'm actually unmedicated. I eat a very healthy diet, get allot of exercise, and am self employed, all of which have allowed me to thrive without meds. Kava was an experiment in finding something natural to offset some of the minor leftover symptoms that my fortunate lifestyle couldn't heal.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Gotcha. Yeah the fact that the winter brought on that many pounds vs losing alot of weight says it all. Clearly you react almost opposite to things.
Kava gives me energy and motivation to do similar stuff that you mentioned then wears off into sleepyness.... you seem to feel dull and sleepy but when its time to to sleep you get energy lol

 

[hotwired]

Very close, i don't feel sleepy at the onset though, in fact i do get a little chatty, it's just that i get wrapped up in the feeling... It's like I'm not willing to take my attention away from the great buzz, and so all the things i love are unattractive. Super self centeredness or something...

 

[Squanch72]

On tiny amounts of kava I am fairly motivated on higher amounts I slug.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

That's how I was with opiates haha

 

[hotwired]

Perhaps I've gotten used to being "Crunked" and I might do better with a lighter dose. But ... my addictive personality rebels and says, "What's the point?!"

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Hmmm. I don't know maybe. How much do you generally take as your first dose ?

 

[hotwired]

Usually 1 good full TBSP. My "reverse tolerance" may be such that I'm over doing it. I am going to continue 1-2x per week until my "stash" is gone so I'll continue to experiment and observe ...

 

[Edward]

This is probably a silly question but how many different types have you tried? I get different effects from different kavas and have yet to enjoy a completely heavy kava although I haven't tried that many. I don't find many kavas really send me to sleep as such. I find alcohol sends me to sleep but the sleep isn't of very good quality. I can sleep on kava but it's not necessarily easier to get to sleep. I just enjoy the other benefits of kava. This is a little bit out there but I noticed that when I was in prison for 4 months and couldn't get to sleep due to twitchy legs (lack of alcohol generally) my options were 100 to 200 squats or... a good orgasm... Obviously I was alone at the time so had to "make do" but it works when I am with my wife too. For me it's about the relaxing effect... just a thought ;-)

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Are you physically addicted to Phenibut ? How regularly did you consume Phenibut prior to trying to get into kava.
If you consume Phenibut regularly and stop suddenly, even if it's in favor of kava, your body can still react with insomnia
and rebound anxiety from the Phenibut withdrawal.

Some people do have reverse reactions to things and it sounds like you might just be one of those people. ADHD people
are commonly noted to be calmed by amphetamines rather than tweaked out.

 

[hotwired]

No addiction to Phenibut. I follow the "fool proof" dosing of no more than 2x per week and always 3 days in between (i.e. Monday and Thursday), but often only once per week. @Edward I have only tried Moi, Nene, Mahakea and Boroguru from GHK, then Pouni Ono (my hands down favorite) from ... KKRUS. What do you like?

 

[Edward]

I think Pentecost Pride is my favourite so far but I also like the instant from Kava Europe. I find kava candies really good too.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

What's your diet like otherwise ? Spicy foods ? Tea coffee ect, ?

 

[violet]

@hotwired You might still be okay with another variety of kava. I find I react similarly with probably half of the noble types I've tried. You can have two kavas with the same chemotype but get very different effects due to the variability of the amounts of lactones in each. There are nuances to every kava, and effects can differ quite dramatically between kava strains and individual brain/body chemistry.

I used to be able to use kava to help induce sleep most of the time, but I'd wager a guess that I was consuming some non-noble stuff too. One kava in particular that most like to suggest for sleep, Nene, gives me a horrible ants-in-the-pants type of feeling along with being kind of spacey, caused severe insomnia for me. I think like you are experiencing, I find that certain kavas stimulate me while making me feel "turned off," a feeling I don't enjoy.

I also have some ADD issues. Some kavas have a nice way of even-ing things out and helping with focus. For that in particular I did well with Honokane Iki. It centered my focus and stimulated me in a good way, while calming me enough that it wasn't a chore to sit and get work done. I completed a couple months of papers, exams, and assignments in a couple weeks.

I often experience paradoxical reactions with drugs myself (stimulants can sedate me, benadryl wires me up) and it can be frustrating. I do much better with balanced kavas that lean in the direction of body load effects. My two favorites for this are Mapulehu and Hanakapi'ai, Mapulehu being the more sedating of the two. I really enjoy the uplifting balance of Fijians. It seems to me traditionally prepared root offers a spectrum of effects that I don't fully find in the no-prep forms, perhaps another avenue worth exploring.

I'm rarely able to just sit and listen to the kava, but it might be helpful for you if you begin a kava session only after you are actively into doing something else. Working up from smaller doses might be good for you. Perhaps you may perceive a difference in effects this way. Kava can be quite fickle, the same kind might not give us the same effects two times in a row.

Without kava do you ever have any trouble getting motivated to do things that you enjoy? What specifically are looking to get from the kava? Sorry this is happening to you, hopefully we can help.

.

 

[hotwired]

Thank you @violet - I am open to trying again ... after deciding I was "done" with is, I began to grieve!! So I'm just being careful. I did some instant Moi at 5.30 a.m. and I have to say, it was nice. I always think "headier" means it will give me anxiety but not so with this one. I think dosing is important. I think when I get "krunked" so to speak (not exactly sure what means .. I assume it means you've dosed enough that the kava "owns" you!) But once I get krunked, that's when I am not as "present" ... and I'm glad to here someone else echo the nene problem. I'll stay away from that except for relaxing early in the day. I'm going to to order a "bunch" of micronized, as small as possible, so I don't have much to toss, or "blend" if I don't like it.
Where do you get your hanakap'ai and mapulehu and especially the honokane iki?? I love the idea of being able to get "heady" work done ...
Thanks again. This was a helpful dialogue.