Hipster Kava?
- Thread starter Jerome
- Start date
verticity
I'm interested in things
I think there's some hipster backlash these days because the word no longer implies any broad definition or a small number of genuinely unique individuals. There has become a very specific pre-packaged, look, style, personality, set of likes & dislikes that now define the modern "hipster". Any true, natural hipster-types, that arrived at that lifestyle outside of current trends or peer pressure are now vastly outnumbered by the johnny-come-lately types. When any movement grows too large, it's bound to acquire more and more detractors. I find it especially humorous in the case of Hipsters now, because the whole style was based off being opposed to popular trends, yet it has now risen to the top of the mainstream. Popular and filled with bandwagonism. This very fact should cause so much self-loathing within it's community, according to it's own doctrine.
Analysis aside, I don't think anyone really has beef with hipsters. They're just a new, easy, soft target to hit that no one will be overly offended by. Like making wife or in-law jokes.
lol, that was awesome.
is that the band that did detachable penis ?
sweet jazz drums btw
verticity
I'm interested in things
Yes, that was their big "hit" lol
Actually really the process of a "cool" subculture becoming popular and being invaded by "un-cool bandwagon followers" has been going on for a very long time, and it's kind of relative and age-dependent how one divides between the two groups. For example, this is a great article by Hunter S. Thompson where he completely rips to shreds the people back in the late 60's who were known as hippies.
I haven't read the article, but I've always held a similar view of hippies as I stated with the modern hipsters. (Despite not being alive to witness hippies 1st hand) That is, I believe there must have been a small number of proto-hippies and/or "true" hippies that had what would be considered hippy beliefs and lived "hippie" lifestyles and they arrived at that point completely independently, based entirely on their true self, opinions and world view...but the majority were just following a massive trend. In anyone's highschool/early college years there will always be some variation of youth trends going on.
In the case of the hippies, bandwagonism is still easily mockable, but I commend many ideals of the hippy. So, if a subculture needs to become enormous and full of wanna-bes and posers to have an effect on the world, then I'm glad the hippie scene got so huge. Even if the authentic hippies were few, it was the enormous swathe of followers that helped usher in a new level of social awareness and desire for peace, love, acceptance, equality etc...
At least jumping on the bandwagon for peace and equality, because it's en vogue, has the intention of a positive ramification.
Being a smug, metro-lumberjack, with faux-nerd glasses who only values free-thinking to make himself seem cooler than you, doesn't really have the same noble ideals at the heart of the movement as the hippies did. In my personal view, that makes you more deserved of jokes or criticism.
TL;DR I'm less likely mock inclusive trends that have positive intentions.
Edit: I started reading Hunter's article and picked this out:
"Publicity follows reality, but only up to the point where a new kind of reality, created by publicity, begins to emerge."
I love that quote. It will likely be relevant forever.
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Ligermeat
Warm and Fuzzeh!
So how do you feel about emos?I haven't read the article, but I've always held a similar view of hippies as I stated with the modern hipsters. (Despite not being alive to witness hippies 1st hand) That is, I believe there must have been a small number of proto-hippies and/or "true" hippies that had what would be considered hippy beliefs and lived "hippie" lifestyles and they arrived at that point completely independently, based entirely on their true self, opinions and world view...but the majority were just following a massive trend. In anyone's highschool/early college years there will always be some variation of youth trends going on.
In the case of the hippies, bandwagonism is still easily mockable, but I commend many ideals of the hippy. So, if a subculture needs to become enormous and full of wanna-bes and posers to have an effect on the world, then I'm glad the hippie scene got so huge. Even if the authentic hippies were few, it was the enormous swathe of followers that helped usher in a new level of social awareness and desire for peace, love, acceptance, equality etc...
At least jumping on the bandwagon for peace and equality, because it's en vogue, has the intention of a positive ramification.
Being a smug, metro-lumberjack, with faux-nerd glasses who only values free-thinking to make himself seem cooler than you, doesn't really have the same noble ideals at the heart of the movement as the hippies did. In my personal view, that makes you more deserved of jokes or criticism.
TL;DR I'm less likely mock inclusive trends that have positive intentions.
verticity
I'm interested in things
The TL;DR of the article, which is very interesting and worth reading, is that Thompson says in effect "But I was a hippie in 1956" So kind of the attitude that we mock about hipsters, in a self-referential manner, many years ago.I haven't read the article, but I've always held a similar view of hippies as I stated with the modern hipsters. (Despite not being alive to witness hippies 1st hand) That is, I believe there must have been a small number of proto-hippies and/or "true" hippies that had what would be considered hippy beliefs and lived "hippie" lifestyles and they arrived at that point completely independently, based entirely on their true self, opinions and world view...but the majority were just following a massive trend. In anyone's highschool/early college years there will always be some variation of youth trends going on.
In the case of the hippies, bandwagonism is still easily mockable, but I commend many ideals of the hippy. So, if a subculture needs to become enormous and full of wanna-bes and posers to have an effect on the world, then I'm glad the hippie scene got so huge. Even if the authentic hippies were few, it was the enormous swathe of followers that helped usher in a new level of social awareness and desire for peace, love, acceptance, equality etc...
At least jumping on the bandwagon for peace and equality, because it's en vogue, has the intention of a positive ramification.
Being a smug, metro-lumberjack, with faux-nerd glasses who only values free-thinking to make himself seem cooler than you, doesn't really have the same noble ideals at the heart of the movement as the hippies did. In my personal view, that makes you more deserved of jokes or criticism.
TL;DR I'm less likely mock inclusive trends that have positive intentions.
And FYI, my nerd glasses are authentic, because I'm an authentic nerd.
verticity
I'm interested in things
Emos are OK. They are better than furries.
( @verticity i started reading the article and immediately plucked a quote that I loved and added it to my post )
Also, I really appreciate people who have actual prescriptions in their glasses now. Can you imagine if people started walking around on crutches, just for the style.
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Jerome
Kava Lover
@BrooklynKava no offense intended in the original post describing your product as "hipster". It was a running joke in my family that to make a "hipster" product you just add the name "Brooklyn".
From the look of the bar, you're Doing It Right.
Clean, modern and inviting with a long bar. Facing forward while talking to people you don't know is one of the great things about kava bars.
One thing Melo Melo lacks that I saw in RutSquared pictures is standing tables which are super-great for that mill-around-and-meet-people mode when a night is in full swing and everyone is starting to feel a little shellacked.
Clean, modern and inviting with a long bar. Facing forward while talking to people you don't know is one of the great things about kava bars.
One thing Melo Melo lacks that I saw in RutSquared pictures is standing tables which are super-great for that mill-around-and-meet-people mode when a night is in full swing and everyone is starting to feel a little shellacked.
Bwiggy
I like plants
Hey, I'm curious what the issues were! Start a new thread or continue here.....
verticity
I'm interested in things
Yeah, I'm kind of curious as well. Are you talking about FDA regulations, or local NYC regulations (which I imagine would be stricter-- The NY Attorney General is pretty aggressive about stuff like fraudulent nutritional supplements, which is what kava is classified as, which is good to some extent, but I could see how overzealousness there could make it difficult for a kava beverage vendor. And also I remember this example of the "nanny state" at it's worst -- the ban on > 32 oz soft drinks in NYC)?
BrooklynKava
Kava Curious
I will do a whole thread on it at some point, but I will give a brief answer here for now. Kava is legal, but it isn't what is known as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the FDA. This means you can make dietary supplements with it, but you can't use it as an ingredient in a food or beverage unless you get specific permission to from the FDA. You CAN make a liquid dietary supplement with it, but a liquid dietary supplement is NOT the same thing as a beverage. What's the difference? it's honestly very confusing, but the FDA put out a guidance on the difference in 2014 one difference is the serving size of the beverage(dietary supplements cannot have a lot of liquid/serving so ready to drink kava in a 14 oz bottle is not permitted) how it is packaged etc etc etc. Most consumer products made with kava are not compliant with this guidance. I think Taki Mai probably is, but I would have to look very closely at it.
I am not a lawyer so I do not have 100% understanding of everything, but Wholefoods decided we were not in compliance with this FDA guidance on the difference between liquid dietary supplements and beverages so we got kicked out.
We could have relabeled the products and gotten back into wholefoods, but we would have been sold in the "wholebody" section (I believe this is where taki mai is sold) and we didn't think it was worth it right now. We may make the bottles again someday, but not for a while.
BrooklynKava
Kava Curious
Wholefoods accounted for most of our business and a regulatory compliance person at the national level decided our beverages were not compliant with FDA regulations, so it's a national level thing. We never actually got contacted by a regulator, but our main customer realized we were not in compliance with national regulations so we lost their business.
The government would consider many kava products to be foods masquerading as dietary supplements and therefor not legal if they took a close look at them.
BrooklynKava
Kava Curious
ironically these regulations actually probably make kava products less safe for a variety of reasons.
verticity
I'm interested in things
Sound like Whole Foods just covering their asses...as large companies are wont to do. That's a shame that it impacted your business.
Meanwhile in the Whole Foods beverage section, we have a large selection of beer and wine! (depending on the irrational state laws where you live, of course)
kavakurious
New Kid in Town
Hi Brooklyn Kava,
This was a long time ago so maybe you are no longer on this forum but I wonder if there are any drinks with kava that is allowed to advertise as a drink and not a herbal supplement? I saw a drink called Leilo on the market that has kava in a can I drank some and it made me very sleepy but it had zero information on where the kava extract came from or anything else on the bottle. I'd love to hear about how this drink got into orbit while yours got shut down. Any thoughts? Curious...