I wanna dive so much farther into kava!!

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

When it comes to sleep, is there a method you guys use specifically? Insomnia from withdrawl is a huge reason I started using kava ! But it seems like it's getting farther away!? Is there any combo of herbs or amount or strain that seems best for this? thanks everyone I'm such a curious nelly

 

[Sean D.]

Do you mean to say that the ability to sleep is getting further away?

I've experimented to some extent with combining kava and a substantial dose of passionflower, which some claim has a doubling affect. Passionflower by itself does nothing for me. It's also probably typically OK to combine kava and chamomile. I've tried combining kava with ashwagandha, though the science on that combo is questionable, ashwagandha does seem to have a slightly more noticeable affect than other herbs. I've also heard of combing kava with holy basil, but holy basil is an herb that reduces cortisol (like rooiboss), which is something to be aware of when combining with other medicines. Some claim holy basil is very sedating -- for me not so much. I've also tried teas with skullkap and catnip or lemonbalm, but they never do anything for me.

I'm not qualified to speak on valerian, but I have tried it; it seems to lower my body temperature and makes me feel cold, but wasn't very sedating personally. Some say you have to take valerian for over a month before it starts to help with sleep, but that's another topic all together.

Personally the only combo I've notice really working is kava + chamomile or maybe ashwagandha.

EDIT: for doses of kava, 4-6 tbs of medium ground for cup or cup and 1/2 is a heavy dose; 2-3 tbs of micro is substantial. As for strain, it's different for everybody: personally borongoru is very sedating to me, but others say boroguru is more sedating.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Hmm. I've had chamomile and passion flower and pretty much all of those. I'll have to try maybe a higher dose of passion flower and see about the extra sedation with kava. I think the problem may still be a withdrawl from kratark. Which could very well be the case. I'm gonna take a break from kava later in the day and see if maybe the simulation from the strain I have may be keeping me awake cuz who knows it's happened before. Thanks for the advice

 

[Deleted User01]

@Zachary, I always take a tablespoon of Micronized Nene about 2 hours before I got to bed to insure a good nights sleep. If you take kava too close to bedtime then it may interfere. You know the usual techniques. Get off the computer at least an hour before bedtime. A small workout an hour or 2 before bedtime works great as does a warm bath. Kava can only do so much and you have to do the rest. The bottom line is to quiet your mind before going to bed. Sometimes reading or some calming music will do that. Watching an exciting basketball game will not!

 

[verticity]

To use kava for insomnia, it seems best to take the kava several hours before bedtime. Right before dinner is a good time. The effects of kava come in "waves", with the stimulating kavain effect first, followed later by the sedation of the other KLs and possibly active metabolites.

Melatonin works well for me sometimes, taken immediately before bed, but I have no idea how well it would work for opioid withdrawal induced insomnia.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Yeah melatonin doesn't seem to work for me. I try it every couple nights and it never does anything. The best thing I've found is diphenhydramine. I just don't know if there's any side effects from using it alot .

 

[verticity]

Yeah melatonin doesn't seem to work for me. I try it every couple nights and it never does anything. The best thing I've found is diphenhydramine. I just don't know if there's any side effects from using it alot .

Diphenhydramine is pretty safe. It is non-addictive. Side effects may be dry mouth and other anticholinergic effects, and grogginess in the morning, since it is a long-lasting antihistamine. Oh, and if you take an overdose, anticholinergic delirium, which is no fun..

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Yeah I've heard of people taking Mass amounts for the hallucinations ... I only take 50mg to 100 mg anyway do I doubt there's a risk for that . What's anticholinergic?

 

[verticity]

Yeah I've heard of people taking Mass amounts for the hallucinations ... I only take 50mg to 100 mg anyway do I doubt there's a risk for that . What's anticholinergic?

"anticholinergic" means a drug that inhibits the acetylcholine receptors in your central and peripheral nervous system (basically your entire entire nervous system), acetylcholine being an important neurotransmitter which has a stimulating effect in the brain/CNS. Nicotine is an example of the opposite kind of drug: it stimulates acetylcholine receptors.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Hmm. That's intense lol.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

A few times I've taken it and generally just felt better not even insomnia wise. Are there any herbs that have this effectthat you know of?

 

[verticity]

A few times I've taken it and generally just felt better not even insomnia wise. Are there any herbs that have this effectthat you know of?

I have actually noticed the same thing from Benadryl/diphenhydramine. There are times when I have been sick w/runny nose, etc., and taking some benadryl actually seemed to have a kind of mood elevating effect in addition to drying up my nose..

There are herbs that have an anticholinergic effect, but they are very dangerous. Diphenhydramine is much safer because you know exactly what you are getting and how much. For example, Jimson Weed contains the anticholinergic atropine, but, like I said is very dangerous:

Wikipdia sez:
"For centuries, datura has been used as an herbal medicine to relieve asthma symptoms and as an analgesic during surgery or bonesetting. It is also a powerful hallucinogen and deliriant, which is used spiritually for the intense visions it produces. However, the tropane alkaloids responsible for both the medicinal and hallucinogenic properties are fatally toxic in only slightly higher amounts than the medicinal dosage, and careless use often results in hospitalizations and deaths."

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Woah haha. I actually found a study showing almost all medication are anticholinergic and this increases memory problems and mortality.

 

[AnimalKracka]

Blue lotus goes great with Kava. The synergy is wonderful and definitely knocks me out.
Kanna in the morning and kava at night have helped with my insomnia and anxiety quite a bit. For the first time in years, I'm sleeping without waking up a dozen times at night and falling asleep has become much easier

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

How much kanna do you use?. I have tons of it but haven't used it much at all

 

[AnimalKracka]

I have no way of gauging an accurate dose, but I just take a decent pinch of fine powder and put it under my tounge, once or twice a day during the work week. Provides a nice little rush and mood elevation (for me anyway).

 

[greenbeen]

Hmm. I've had chamomile and passion flower and pretty much all of those. I'll have to try maybe a higher dose of passion flower and see about the extra sedation with kava. I think the problem may still be a withdrawl from kratark. Which could very well be the case. I'm gonna take a break from kava later in the day and see if maybe the simulation from the strain I have may be keeping me awake cuz who knows it's happened before. Thanks for the advice

Whats kratark ?

Blue lotus goes great with Kava. The synergy is wonderful and definitely knocks me out.
Kanna in the morning and kava at night have helped with my insomnia and anxiety quite a bit. For the first time in years, I'm sleeping without waking up a dozen times at night and falling asleep has become much easier

What effects do you get with taking kanna in the morning? (Ive read the basics about kanna but still dont understand the effects of a reuptake inhibitor)

 

[whiterabbit8666]

Hmm. I've had chamomile and passion flower and pretty much all of those. I'll have to try maybe a higher dose of passion flower and see about the extra sedation with kava. I think the problem may still be a withdrawl from kratark. Which could very well be the case. I'm gonna take a break from kava later in the day and see if maybe the simulation from the strain I have may be keeping me awake cuz who knows it's happened before. Thanks for the advice

Ive found with cont experimentation that a glycerin extraction of the powder kava and powdered cannabis works great. Granted not currently legal everywhere this combo allows me to dose any where vaporizers are allowed. Onset of effect is 5
-10 min running my vap pen at 10-14 watts. Noticeable effects lasts in range of 2-4 hours.ill let you know more as I cont my research.

 

[AnimalKracka]

Kanna just gives me a nice rush a bit after ingestion, followed by slight euphoria. It's nothing profound, but it's great for my social anxiety and I've noticed myself to be a bit tired after it wears off, which is great because when I start my kava sessions, sleep will most likely follow within a few hours.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

An herbal opiate, thats addictive if you use it for months daily. However if not then it's a fantastic pain reliever and opens a world of opportunity to people looking to substitute or get off of pharmaceutical pain killers. But I'm dumb and used it recreationally/for work for over 6 months straight and created quite a dilemma for my self haha.