methysticin in Fijian kava

[TheKavaSociety]

I've been reading a few articles expressing surprise that Fijian kavas have a very high methysticin content as it is (perhaps) not as "quick" or perhaps as even "pleasant" (in terms of it acting quickly, but not lasting for too long) as kavain or even dhk (which explains that everywhere kavain or kavain and dhk were the preferred kavalactones)

Lebot and Simeoni (2004) wrote:

" The question as to why the Fijian cultivars produce such levels of methysticin (6) remains without a satisfactory answer; but it is probable that both the environment and some changes in the traditional uses are responsible (...) In Fiji, Samoa and Tonga, consumers adopted the dry powder and diluted their beverage so that it corresponds to a beverage acceptable for European [missionaries/colonial authorities] standards, but is also adapted to their way of socialising. While doing so, they contributed to the erosion of their local traditional knowledge related to cultivars and to their distinct uses. In countries where kava is prepared from the dried plant material, the selection process cannot be efficient because varieties are not identified. This might explain the high levels of methysticin found nowadays in Fijian cultivars."

It is indeed a bit of a mystery why Fijian kava has so much methysticin. Anyway, do you actually notice that it offers qualitatively different effects to kavas with low methysticin?

There is also this research on methysticin: http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/124/2/388

 

[Edward]

Just after I first started I thought that it was kavas high in methysticin that gave me more nausea. I'm not sure that's the case now but most Fijian kavas I have drunk have not agreed with me in some way, usually way too heady and give me the jitters. There are some notable exceptions, BKH 11 yr waka and one from Koro Island. Not sure if that is maybe because of the M?

 

[TheKavaSociety]

from what I understand, methysticin is actually a very slow acting and long lasting kavalactone. It attains max concentration in the brain within an hour or two (I think) vs kavain's 5 minutes! So I am not sure if it's "heady" (this term is always a bit confusing). I've seen a mini graph in the Buveurs that suggested that DHK was a much "quicker" kavalactone that methysticin, which seemed quite confusing as I always thought that DHM and DHK would be more similar.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

The nausea might be related to the fact that nobody peels the roots in Fiji, apparently (just not a traditional way of preparing kava).

I am actually quite confused by the whole peeling process. On the one hand Teschke, Lebot and others say one should only consume "peeled roots", but on the other hand it is clear the skin contains fairly high concentrations of kavalactones. Perhaps it's a matter of vocabulary. I don't think anyone can physically "peel" these super thin roots . Lebot et al. probably talk about peeling the stump (or just the underground bit)? I think I talked to @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava about this a few weeks ago. @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava do you know exactly which parts of the rootstock must be peeled?

 

[Edward]

Maybe it's that aspect of the M that causes me problems? Too easy to top up too fast?

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

When I have kavas with stronger than usual methysticin ratios, I often (but not always, perhaps due to freshness or overall KL%) get an effect that's pretty similar to what I think DHK feels like. Deep but not too deep, dreamy, slo-mo vibe...not quite to the extent that DiHydroMethysticin gives, with it's more nauseating and even heavier body load type of vibe.

So, anecdotally, from my years of trying kavas and checking their chemotypes against it's effects on me, I think DHK and M are 'balanced' kavalactones. while Kavain and Yangonin obviously headier, lighter, 'rushier'. DHM's effects are pretty well agreed upon...leaving the mysterious DMY the least experienced lactone. I need a kava with DMY in the 2nd or 1st position, I've had a couple with DMY in 3rd, I originally thought it was adding a certain magic that I enjoy...but it wasn't always repeatable, so I can't say for sure.

Kavatime's waka and Kalm's Loa Waka both had Methysticin in the 2nd position, in Kalm's case it was close to being in 1st position, both of those kava had deep, stand out effects to me (for my preference) which I can only assume is from the large proportion of methysticin.

i'm babbling

 

[kasa_balavu]

The first I ever heard or saw of peeling roots was GHK's description and pics of his micronized kava processing method.

In the GHK video below, Chris shows nematode damage. In the first half of the video, he shows just the kava roots. The second half shows the stump (Lawena). In Fiji, we peel the lawena, but never the roots.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Yes. We actually talked about it here: http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads...efore-drying-and-processing.9129/#post-108396 . Now I remember that Chris mentioned he removes all of the outer bark (@Gourmet Hawaiian Kava correct me if I am wrong, please). I think the Tongans do the same thing. And that's in line with the recommendations listed in all the "quality guidelines". @kasa_balavu so in Fiji the outer bark is not removed from the roots?

 

[Kava Time]

@Henry, chris mentioned he sometimes peels to make his kava better tasting and sometimes doesnt peel to make it more potent.
In fiji, waka doesnt consistently grow as thick as vanuatu, hawaiian or tongan roots so it isnt feasible for farmers to peel the roots as its a very tedious job, you lose alot of weight on your harvest and its nearly impossible to peel those thinner roots. After harvest, drying the kava roots drops its weight by almost 70% so peeling would add more to the weight loss. Most farmers dry up till the waka loses 40-50% moisture so that farmers are able to make decent money on their harvest. Some honest farmers will dry the roots completely but then they sell to the middleman who then spray water into those roots to add weight and make more money.
Anyways its pretty unfeasible to peel roots here. Lawena on the other hand is bit easier and more feasible to peel so some farmers do so. The reason why the lawena is peeled isnt because of some health concern but that peeled lawena really makes fair kava beverages. It is more appealing to the eyes of the drinker who thinks the kava is much more cleaner than the darker kavas. Im suspecting this is the same reason why roots in tonga maybe peeled because it makes the beverage much fairer but not really better tasting.
@Kavasseur and shakas and many others have tried my savusavu and have agreed that its probably the best tasting fijian kava they've had and i doubt anyone has experienced nausea with it. Those roots were not peeled. I think sometimes nausea can occur even with good kavas if you drink too much of it. But not just because of the skin of the roots.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Thank you for this detailed and very interesting reply @Kavatime ! Just to be clear: I didn't mean to imply that Fijian kava is worse than kava from other places. I just think it's very high methysticin content is quite interesting and has indeed attracted scholarly interest. The high methysticin content may actually be an amazing thing for many people, but it's still rather perplexing as it's not something we can see outside of Fiji. So I guess scholars wonder if this is just "an accident" facilitated by the fact that Fijian drinkers no longer drink fresh kava, or if there was any specific reason for promoting this chemotype.

Re peelings. According to Lebot much of the kava bitterness comes from the compounds found in the skin/bark so I guess peeling must be making a bit of a difference when it comes to flavour, but surely that's just one of the many factors.

 

[kavadude]

Wouldn't the selection process have occurred before the switch to dried kava?

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Wouldn't the selection process have occurred before the switch to dried kava?

that's a good question. I don't know to be honest. @kasa_balavu @Kavatime do we know when people stopped drinking fresh kava in Fiji?
Perhaps it's not just fresh versus dry, but also how much water is used and the style of drinking? In Vanuatu the kava is so strong that socialising is actually quite difficult. One just wants to look at the stars and peacefully enjoy existence with clear, focused and deep thoughts. In Fiji and Tonga people want to hang out with their friends, play some music, chat for hours.

 

[kavadude]

My first thought would be maybe that they didn't really select them. The countries other than Vanuatu do not have very many varieties, perhaps those they ended up with were just those they had access to, minus ones that went "extinct" for whatever reason, and Fiji just ended up with high-methysticin varieties by chance.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

@Henry I think I read once (but can't verify this statement) that drying kava came after the arrival of Indians to Fiji, from their knowledge of spice drying. Not sure how long ago that was, probably in the last couple hundred years.

 

[kavadude]

that's something we have a pretty hard date on, early 20th century: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indians_in_Fiji

 

[TheKavaSociety]

@Henry I think I read once (but can't verify this statement) that drying kava came after the arrival of Indians to Fiji, from their knowledge of spice drying. Not sure how long ago that was, probably in the last couple hundred years.

Well, it could be related. But other sources seem to be suggesting that it was due to the influence of the missionaries/colonial powers, as well as the growing importance of trade (easier to store, trade, etc).

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Ok. The plot thickens. Apparently even within Fiji drinkers prefer cultivars with more kavain:

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Also, if I understand it correctly, it is proposed that Fiji got its kava via Tonga

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

Yes. We actually talked about it here: http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads...efore-drying-and-processing.9129/#post-108396 . Now I remember that Chris mentioned he removes all of the outer bark (@Gourmet Hawaiian Kava correct me if I am wrong, please). I think the Tongans do the same thing. And that's in line with the recommendations listed in all the "quality guidelines". @kasa_balavu so in Fiji the outer bark is not removed from the roots?

Hi Henry, I only peel the stump or corm of the kava, this is the above ground part, I do not peel the lateral roots. Aloha.

Chris

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Hi Henry, I only peel the stump or corm of the kava, this is the above ground part, I do not peel the lateral roots. Aloha.

Chris

Thanks for clarifying this point Chris!