New here, obviously...

[Plantacious]

Is there any restrictions on naming vendors/brands/sources on the forum, or recommending any ?

EDIT : Sorry about the double post, but when I first posted it, it told me I had to wait 28 seconds for my next post. So I assumed it didn't go through. So I waited 28 seconds, and re-tried, and apparently both posts went through.

 

[Zaphod]

Is there any restrictions on naming vendors/brands/sources on the forum, or recommending any ?

EDIT : Sorry about the double post, but when I first posted it, it told me I had to wait 28 seconds for my next post. So I assumed it didn't go through. So I waited 28 seconds, and re-tried, and apparently both posts went through.

Nope, and there are quite a few reviews. My go to vendor is Gourment Hawaiian Kava (GHK) - great microgrinds, lots of variety from heady to heavy, great service, and all Noble. Chris owns the process from plant to bag so no chance of contamination with anything else. I have been drinking almost daily for 2 years and 90%of that has been from GHK. The other 10% is me picking other suppliers that look interesting and trying it just for fun and variety. That said there are a lot of other good suppliers of great Kava. Bula Kava House kava has had some really good ones, Squanch Kava is mighty strong, Kalm with Kava gets good reviews. Scroll through the vendor and/or review section and start sampling. My recommendation for any beginner is to stick with suppliers that have a good consistent track record of testing all of their kava, and have a strong interest in promoting Noble only. The last thing you want is to get a tudei, or a tudei mixed kava and have a bad experience with it as a beginner.

 

[verticity]

As I read through the "Frequently asked questions" there is lots of great information but here is something which should be clarified based on this quote-
"What temperature water should I use for making kava?
A study by the University of Hawaii at Manoa concluded that using hot but not boiling (113 Fahrenheit) water significantly aided the extraction of kavalactones. Some forum users have found that using boiling water can increase the potency of kava. Regardless of what temperature the kava is prepared at, chilling it before drinking will improve the taste".
-- while it is true that hot water will aid in extraction of kavalactones, it is important to remember the current recommendations* are to make your kava beverage (whether fresh or dry) using tap, cool water not hot. Kava 's effects are far more than kavalactones, there is an entourage of complex active components. Chilling before drinking, if made from hot, misses the point.
* CODEX ALIMENTARIUS Commission 2017 Standard for Kava Products for Use as a Beverage and Journal of the American Medical Association 11/17/2010 Vol. 304.

@Alia I have been meaning to ask you about this. I am one of those who uses hot water to make my kava, although I realize it is not strictly traditional. But I also wonder what the traditional water temperature really is. Here in Colorado, the temperature of the "cold" tap water varies depending on the season. During the summer, the "cold" water is maybe 70 F. The water is colder than the outdoor temperature, which is about 90 right now, maybe because it is piped here underground from higher elevation where it is colder. And in the winter the "cold" water can get very cold, almost like ice water. So, my question is, what is the temperature of the tap water there in Hawaii, and in the other islands where they drink kava? I'm guessing it's warmer than here.

 

[Alia]

@Alia I have been meaning to ask you about this. I am one of those who uses hot water to make my kava, although I realize it is not strictly traditional. But I also wonder what the traditional water temperature really is. Here in Colorado, the temperature of the "cold" tap water varies depending on the season. During the summer, the "cold" water is maybe 70 F. The water is colder than the outdoor temperature, which is about 90 right now, maybe because it is piped here underground from higher elevation where it is colder. And in the winter the "cold" water can get very cold, almost like ice water. So, my question is, what is the temperature of the tap water there in Hawaii, and in the other islands where they drink kava? I'm guessing it's warmer than here.

Correction after running it awhile- -- My Well water temperature is around 72 F. The JAMA editorial of 2010 says- "cold water" as does the Codex draft but I doubt they mean like ice cold.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

My basic rule of thumb is cold for krunk and warm for health. I don't know why but the water temp seems to emphasize or de-emphasize the perceived effects of kavalactones, although maybe not the actual amount or proportions of kavalactones, just my experience of them. Something about cold water emphasizes those particular kavalactones involved in krunkitude. IME, anyway.

 

[verticity]

My basic rule of thumb is cold for krunk and warm for health. I don't know why but the water temp seems to emphasize or de-emphasize the perceived effects of kavalactones, although maybe not the actual amount or proportions of kavalactones, just my experience of them. Something about cold water emphasizes those particular kavalactones involved in krunkitude. IME, anyway.

That is interesting. Does the cold water kava seem "stronger" or just "krunkier"? And can you maybe clarify exactly what you mean by "krunktitude" in this context? Do you mean like heady vs sedating when you say "krunk" vs "health"?

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

Just krunkier, something in the 3 and 4.

Here's where I am a contradiction, but I'm ok with that, hobgoblins and all. To me there is head krunk and body krunk and head+body krunk. And so when I say krunkitude I really am referring to all three, but also I am referring to head krunk a bit because that's the direction in which I personally lean and the direction where I am most sensitive and also the direction in which I am more likely to notice things. I can have a heck of a body krunk on but not notice because I'm busy doing something. A head krunk gets more of my attention simply because it demands it more.

So, in this context, I do mean that the cold water makes for greater krunkitude in all three, the head, body and head+body, but especially in the head. OTOH, there are some kavas I find that have no head krunk to them at all but still I notice the greater krunkitude of a cold water prep.

Hope this helps. It makes sense in my own mind but I am slurping down Honokane Iki right now, made with cold water.

 

[Zaphod]

That is interesting. Does the cold water kava seem "stronger" or just "krunkier"? And can you maybe clarify exactly what you mean by "krunktitude" in this context? Do you mean like heady vs sedating when you say "krunk" vs "health"?

In my experience I feel like hot water preparation gives me a kava that is heavier in both mind and body. Sedation feels stronger from the very beginning. Cold water prep seems to give me a much headier experience with less body relaxation from the same kava. My guess is that there are different rates of KL extraction for the heavier KLs with hot/cold than than Kavian....but I have nothing to back that hypothesis up. It would be an interesting experiment to test total KL% extraction, and each KL% extraction with cold vs hot water.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

In my experience I feel like hot water preparation gives me a kava that is heavier in both mind and body. Sedation feels stronger from the very beginning. Cold water prep seems to give me a much headier experience with less body relaxation from the same kava. My guess is that there are different rates of KL extraction for the heavier KLs with hot/cold than than Kavian....but I have nothing to back that hypothesis up. It would be an interesting experiment to test total KL% extraction, and each KL% extraction with cold vs hot water.

One thing I find very interesting is that the percentage of kavalactones, 9%, 12% or 15% or whatever, seems to have no bearing on the krunk. A low percentage might get you uberkrunk and a high percentage might leave you sort of sitting there twiddling your thumbs.

This is why I draw such a huge distinction between health effects, which are not going to be felt immediately as they are generally systemic in nature, vs more immediate effects, specifically elimination of bad feelings, inculcation of good and mellow feelings, and, of course, the krunkness of krunkitude.

btw I still award you my greatest gratitude for the ginger beer suggestion which was the last piece of the puzzle in removing for me all negative effects of the act of drinking kava. It was a game changer.

 

[verticity]

One thing I find very interesting is that the percentage of kavalactones, 9%, 12% or 15% or whatever, seems to have no bearing on the krunk. A low percentage might get you uberkrunk and a high percentage might leave you sort of sitting there twiddling your thumbs.

This is why I draw such a huge distinction betwee health effects, which are not going to be felt immediately as they are generally systemic in ature, vs more immediate effects, specifically elimination of bad feelings, inculcation of good and mellow feelings, and, of course, the krunkness of krunkitude.

btw I still award you my greatest gratitude for the ginger beer suggestion which was the last piece of the puzzle in removing for me all negative effects of the act of drinking kava. It was a game changer.

It's actually hard to measure total KL% accurately, because the number depends on the amount of moisture in the kava, how it has been dried, etc..

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I drink kava 95% for the health effects and 5% for the pleasure. Not that the pleasure is anything to sneeze at, I really enjoy the heck out of drinking kava. Anyway, it's precisely for that reason, the variability of the kavalactones and the imprecision of measurement, that I drink a variety of kavas, in a quantity that is large enough to help but not large enough to harm, trying to cover all bases, as it were. That's why I do the warm water prep when I do, to get those other dozen or so "lesser" kavalactones which might contain tons of good stuff my body will thrive on.

 

[Zaphod]

I drink kava 95% for the health effects and 5% for the pleasure. Not that the pleasure is anything to sneeze at, I really enjoy the heck out of drinking kava. Anyway, it's precisely for that reason, the variability of the kavalactones and the imprecision of measurement, that I drink a variety of kavas, in a quantity that is large enough to help but not large enough to harm, trying to cover all bases, as it were. That's why I do the warm water prep when I do, to get those other dozen or so "lesser" kavalactones which might contain tons of good stuff my body will thrive on.

I also believe there are some health benefits, but they are obviously anecdotal and with a sample of one not really something that you can hang your hat on. I tend to be skeptical and shy away from proclaiming any real health benefits beyond those documented by good studies. I hate it when certain "fad" products come on the market that all of a sudden claim to fix everything. Pomegranate juice was good example of late.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

3,000 years is hardly a "fad" no? The anxiolytic effects of kava have been proven in clinical trials. As have its effects as an anti-inflammatpry, and its effects in treating urinary tract problems. And its use as an anaesthetic. The cancer stuff is not proven as yet but the circumstantial evidence is very strong. You don't have to spend long with pub med to see all this. Vincent Lebot is not a fraud, and what he writes is very well documented and supported.

I assure you I am not faking weight loss or not drinking. I haven't had a drop of alcohol in months, and I have lost 1/8th of my body weight since the start of the year. Before this for years I would run 5 marathons a year and not lose weight. And I have had no enthesitis since drinking kava (and no iritis), when every spring for the past few decades I have two or three flare ups. I had dandruff for decades and now have none.

The medical literature on kava is quite extensive, it's not a placebo, and it isn't fake. What was a fad, and a bad one, was the wave of trendy kava use in Europe in the 90's that lead to people using stems to make a quick buck and making people sick and getting kava banned. And there is always the risk that can happen again and there are some signs that may be happening. But kava itself is innocent. It's the people that were the fakes, the fads, the pretenders. The kava is real.

Of course, if one does not suffer from inflammation, the anti-inflammatory effect won't make a difference. In my case, my overweight was a function of inflammation, so as an anti-inflammatory, kava has essentially been doing a systemic reset on my body, returning my body, for better or worse, to where it it be if I didn't have the inflammatory condition I've had for the past 50 years.

 

[Zaphod]

3,000 years is hardly a "fad" no? The anxiolytic effects of kava have been proven in clinical trials. As have its effects as an anti-inflammatpry, and its effects in treating urinary tract problems. And its use as an anaesthetic. The cancer stuff is not proven as yet but the circumstantial evidence is very strong. You don't have to spend long with pub med to see all this. Vincent Lebot is not a fraud, and what he writes is very well documented and supported.

I assure you I am not faking weight loss or not drinking. I haven't had a drop of alcohol in months, and I have lost 1/8th of my body weight since the start of the year. Before this for years I would run 5 marathons a year and not lose weight. And I have had no enthesitis since drinking kava (and no iritis), when every spring for the past few decades I have two or three flare ups. I had dandruff for decades and now have none.

The medical literature on kava is quite extensive, it's not a placebo, and it isn't fake. What was a fad, and a bad one, was the wave of trendy kava use in Europe in the 90's that lead to people using stems to make a quick buck and making people sick and getting kava banned. And there is always the risk that can happen again and there are some signs that may be happening. But kava itself is innocent. It's the people that were the fakes, the fads, the pretenders. The kava is real.

Of course, if one does not suffer from inflammation, the anti-inflammatory effect won't make a difference. In my case, my overweight was a function of inflammation, so as an anti-inflammatory, kava has essentially been doing a systemic reset on my body, returning my body, for better or worse, to where it it be if I didn't have the inflammatory condition I've had for the past 50 years.

I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying kava is a fad or Lebot's work is a fraud, or kava is fake - far from it actually. I have reviewed a lot of the pubmed and NIH studies on kava. I would argue however that the "medical literature on kava" is not all that extensive and some of the proclaimed health benefits are minimal at best. Aside from the clearly anxiolytic effect, most of the other claims have not been fully proven in good clinical trials. In vitro studies or studies in mice are interesting and can lead to further human trials , but to often are used as claimed benefits with little support. This is what I see with other fad products and I don't think we should do it with kava. Did you know there are also kava studies that show a possible increase in liver and testicular cancer in rats? As with most herbal medicines the incentive to do these good clinical trials is pretty low. I think my bar of proof is just higher than yours is. I see great promise in a lot of these and I hope more studies do get funded. I am also glad kava has done wonders for you personally, and I find that many on this forum have the same experience, but they are still nothing more than anecdotal evidence. Possibly some day there will be additional studies and you will be proven correct.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying kava is a fad or Lebot's work is a fraud, or kava is fake - far from it actually. I have reviewed a lot of the pubmed and NIH studies on kava. I would argue however that the "medical literature on kava" is not all that extensive and some of the proclaimed health benefits are minimal at best. Aside from the clearly anxiolytic effect, most of the other claims have not been fully proven in good clinical trials. In vitro studies or studies in mice are interesting and can lead to further human trials , but to often are used as claimed benefits with little support. This is what I see with other fad products and I don't think we should do it with kava. Did you know there are also kava studies that show a possible increase in liver and testicular cancer in rats? As with most herbal medicines the incentive to do these good clinical trials is pretty low. I think my bar of proof is just higher than yours is. I see great promise in a lot of these and I hope more studies do get funded. I am also glad kava has done wonders for you personally, and I find that many on this forum have the same experience, but they are still nothing more than anecdotal evidence. Possibly some day there will be additional studies and you will be proven correct.

Actually, I am of two minds on this. On the one hand, you want to tell people, on the other hand, you don't. If you tell people and they misunderstand and take kava the wrong way and hurt themselves, you haven't done them a favour. And if that results in kava becoming prohibitively expensive, or getting banned, then you haven't done yourself any favours, either. Even in a neutral scenario, they waste a bunch of time and money, get their hopes up and get nothing and give up in disappointment.

I find it's very hard to help people and you can often do a lot of harm in trying. Often it's just best to help yourself. Besides, a. most people wouldn't believe you and b. most people don't want to get better. You can't help them.

A lot of this is really early days. Until recently the world knew little if anything about auto-immune or inflammatory disorders. I think we are only at the very beginning of asking questions about what if obesity is inflammation or a result of it? Anxiety and depression? Cancer? But that's not my problem, at least, not any more. You mainly have to take care of yourself and the people you love.

OK, maybe I am in more than two minds on this, maybe three or four.

 

[Plantacious]

Wow, I had no idea that the preparation of Kava could be so scientific and complex, with so many possible different options, techniques, and possible outcomes.
It can be kind of intimidating at first.
Where is a newbie to start ?

 

[Zaphod]

Wow, I had no idea that the preparation of Kava could be so scientific and complex, with so many possible different options, techniques, and possible outcomes.
It can be kind of intimidating at first.
Where is a newbie to start ?

I am a big believer that newbies are best served (pun intended) by getting some microgrind or instant kava. You can easily control dosage and slowly ramp up to get your desired effect and can repeat the next day with the same dose or higher. It is easy and straightforward. The aluball with medium grind is the next easiest way to prep kava - simple to just add kava, shake, and drink. After a few weeks/months of microgrind or instant then it is an easy step to try doing traditional prep. It is not hard to do, but you do get more variable results based on a variety of factors. For a newbie in my mind keep it simple.

 

[blindy107]

Welcome!

 

[Plantacious]

Thanks for all the nice words and help from everyone.
At first I thought this sub-forum was just for introductions.
But I see other types of threads, besides intros. So I assume it's okay for Noobs to stick around with more questions eh ?

 

[Plantacious]

I am a big believer that newbies are best served (pun intended) by getting some microgrind or instant kava.

I have been seeing the phrase "microgrind or instant" a lot. And I'm wondering, is microgrind and instant both synonymous, or when they say "microgrind or instant" are they saying it as 2 different options ?