Need some advice: moldy Kava?

[kavamedicine]

Hello Fellow Kava-Friends,

As I live in in Germany, where whole powdered Kava is sadly not allowed, my optioned are unfortunately quite limited (i.e. I have to find someone selling it from within the EU, which is not easy). I just orders a kilo of VKS Malekula Magic from a head shop in Hungary who got it directly from Kava Europe a.k.a. Global Kava Exports (or so they say - although when I talked to them on the phone they sounded legit and believable). In any case, the expiration date says 2018 and the person I talked to said it he thought it was a year old or so, and it came in a double plastic (but not vacuum-sealed) bag.

When I opened it I immediately noticed that it smelled different then any of the the other Kavas I have had - it smelled first of all not as strong or fresh, but also a bit "smoky" and "sweet" (but not necessarily bad or moldy, as I understand mold to smell). As a side note, I may be spoiled as I have been drinking mainly Bula's Nambawan and Kava Kauai's Five Star Kava - both of which have a beautiful, fresh smell - for some time now and my supply is now dry. I attributed the smell of the Malekula Magic to having sat in a head shop with God-knows-what (incense, herbal preparations, etc.) and this odor likely penetrated the plastic. I brewed it up and, although the effect was quite nice, it was definitely not nearly as potent as the 2 aforementioned Kavas I have been drinking (or others I have had in the past, for that matter), and I had to use quite a bit of powder. In any case, I didn't get sick or anything and felt fine the next day. The powder is incidentally also a bit darker than the Five Star and Nambawan, but I think this is to be expected. A visual inspection revealed nothing unusual.

Now to my question: the idea just occurred to me that the Kava could be contaminated with mold - an idea which really scares me. So my question is: what exactly does moldy Kava smell like? "Smoky"? Should I be concerned? Should I toss it out (or try to return it) and face the prospect of having no Kava powder for awhile? (which would make me quite bummed as I have become a thorough enjoyer of Kava and it really helps me).

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks and Bula (-:

 

[kavadude]

@kavamedicine moldy kava is very uncommon; dried kava is pretty antimicrobial and resistant to any kind of contamination.

How many kavas have you had? Because while it's possible that this batch is off somehow, there can be quite a range in smells and tastes. This can be because of cultivation, drying technique, etc. I haven't had Five Star kava, but Nambawan is one of the "freshest" dried kavas available; not many kavas have a similar smell or texture.

There's no way to know for sure without testing it, which would probably be more expensive than just buying more kava. I would personally just drink it and go slow.

 

[Edward]

Hello Fellow Kava-Friends,

As I live in in Germany, where whole powdered Kava is sadly not allowed, my optioned are unfortunately quite limited (i.e. I have to find someone selling it from within the EU, which is not easy). I just orders a kilo of VKS Malekula Magic from a head shop in Hungary who got it directly from Kava Europe a.k.a. Global Kava Exports (or so they say - although when I talked to them on the phone they sounded legit and believable). In any case, the expiration date says 2018 and the person I talked to said it he thought it was a year old or so, and it came in a double plastic (but not vacuum-sealed) bag.

When I opened it I immediately noticed that it smelled different then any of the the other Kavas I have had - it smelled first of all not as strong or fresh, but also a bit "smoky" and "sweet" (but not necessarily bad or moldy, as I understand mold to smell). As a side note, I may be spoiled as I have been drinking mainly Bula's Nambawan and Kava Kauai's Five Star Kava - both of which have a beautiful, fresh smell - for some time now and my supply is now sadly dry. I attributed the smell of the Malekula Magic to having sat in a head shop with God-knows-what (incense, herbal preparations, etc.) and this odor likely penetrated the plastic. I brewed it up and, although the effect was quite nice, it was definitely not nearly as potent as the 2 aforementioned Kavas I have been drinking (or others I have had in the past, for that matter), and I had to use quite a bit of powder. In any case, I didn't get sick or anything and felt fine the next day. The powder is incidentally also a bit darker than the Five Star and Nambawan, but I think this is to be expected. A visual inspection revealed nothing unusual.

Now to my question: the idea just occurred to me that the Kava could be contaminated with mold - an idea which really scares me. So my question is: what exactly does moldy Kava smell like? "Smoky"? Should I be concerned? Should I toss it out (or try to return it) and face the prospect of having no Kava powder for awhile? (which would make me quite bummed as I have become a thorough enjoyer of Kava and it really helps me).

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks and Bula (-:

I've had quite a bit of Malekula Magic and I would say that it does have a strange smell to it compared to other kavas. It's not the strongest kava out there either especially compared to BKH kavas. As @kavadude says it COULD be off but I don't think it is.

 

[kavamedicine]

Thank you, kavadude and Edward, for your responses. Almost all of my previous Kava experience is with Bula Kava House and Kava Kauai; all of the Kavas I have had from them (probably about 8 altogether) are significantly stronger than this batch of Malekula Magic, which is strange because the MM is often rated as being relatively strong (at least in the reviews I read). Perhaps I did get an old batch...? By the way, I have a suspicion that BKH Nambawan and Kava Kauai's Five Star Kava are from the same supplier, as the smell, taste and effect are so similar. Both are beautiful (and potent) Kavas, and since I had been drinking them almost exclusively before I received the Malekula Magic the bar was set pretty high...

 

[verticity]

I have had batches of Borogu from Bula Kava House that have kind of a "smoky" smell, which I attribute to the bark not being shaved well enough.
If it were damp or smelled moldy or had visible mold, I would throw it away. But that does not sound like it was the case here. There is a theory that extract made from moldy kava was responsible for the liver damage scare.
Kava Europe is a reputable seller, so if it is in the original packaging it is probably OK.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

The smoky smell is most likely due to indoor drying that can take place in wood fired sheds.

 

[kasa_balavu]

Even if there is or has been mold on it, it'd be on the surface only. You could always give it a quick scrub/wash and then dry it out again.

 

[verticity]

Even if there is or has been mold on it, it'd be on the surface only. You could always give it a quick scrub/wash and then dry it out again.

The problem is, he has powder, not whole roots. I don't think washing would work in that case, no?

 

[kavamedicine]

Thanks everyone, for the advice. I am enjoying the MM Kava without worrying too much about it now (and am still alive after multiple shells)

@verticity: Yes, I have the powder, not the whole roots, so I don't think washing it would work.

 

[kasa_balavu]

My bad. I misread the original comment.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Nambawan and 5-Star kava (which is also sold as WOW!) are two kavas that have some special processing/drying method that preserves some freshness and potency. Most other kavas will be a bit different than those, so they might not be the best examples to judge by. In fact, the time I had Nambawan, I thought it smelled weird. (Great stuff though)

There's a broad range of kava scents and flavors, but there's typically always an underlying 'kavaness' to them all, no matter how different they seem. I've only had a couple weird batches that didn't smell or taste like kava at all...and they were both incredible weak..almost complete trash...I still consumed them in their entirety.

​

 

[verticity]

... I've only had a couple weird batches that didn't smell or taste like kava at all...and they were both incredible weak..almost complete trash...I still consumed them in their entirety.

Dude.... or I'm not sure

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Dude.... or I'm not sure

Since it was both weak and risky, I'd go with the former.
But had it been risky, followed by a kick ass experience, then definitely the latter.

 

[kavamedicine]

@sɥɐʞɐs: Thanks for the info. Is the 5-Star (from Kava Kauai) really the exact same Kava as the N@H's Wow? I read this somewhere else on the forum, but don't know how someone could possibly confirm this (without actually being in touch with the supplier). I have never had Wow, but have had a lot of Nambawan and 5-star and find them so similar that I would also be suspicious that they may also be from the exact same supplier... Any thoughts/info on this?

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

@sɥɐʞɐs: Thanks for the info. Is the 5-Star (from Kava Kauai) really the exact same Kava as the N@H's Wow? I read this somewhere else on the forum, but don't know how someone could possibly confirm this (without actually being in touch with the supplier). I have never had Wow, but have had a lot of Nambawan and 5-star and find them so similar that I would also be suspicious that they may also be from the exact same supplier... Any thoughts/info on this?

It's confirmed, I was in touch with the supplier/producer. He didn't mention Nambawan though, but he might make that one as well, or someone else is using a similar production method. I definitely get different effects from WOW! than Nambawan. The main difference with these types of dry kava, is that they're dried only once...where as most kava on the market gets dried a few times on the way down the line. I remember correctly, they might also have all their skins removed and be dried in a more controlled way too.

 

[kavamedicine]

It's confirmed, I was in touch with the supplier/producer. He didn't mention Nambawan though, but he might make that one as well, or someone else is using a similar production method. I definitely get different effects from WOW! than Nambawan. The main difference with these types of dry kava, is that they're dried only once...where as most kava on the market gets dried a few times on the way down the line. I remember correctly, they might also have all their skins removed and be dried in a more controlled way too.

OK, then so it is confirmed. That's good info. Just out of curiosity, how do the effects differ in your experience between the Wow (aka 5-Star) and the Nambawan? I personally find them both to be extremely strong and "heady" Kavas (high Kavain?), and cannot detect much difference in effects. And by the way, as you are in touch with the supplier, is the Wow/5-Star really 100% Noble? I remember hearing Kavasseur mention in a review that the Wow is "probably a Tudei", which surprised me. To me is feels really clean and I have never had any hangover or negative next-day effects to speak of... I would like to know, as it is one of my favorites that I plan on continuing to consume... Thanks.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

OK, then so it is confirmed. That's good info. Just out of curiosity, how do the effects differ in your experience between the Wow (aka 5-Star) and the Nambawan? I personally find them both to be extremely strong and "heady" Kavas (high Kavain?), and cannot detect much difference in effects. And by the way, as you are in touch with the supplier, is the Wow/5-Star really 100% Noble? I remember hearing Kavasseur mention in a review that the Wow is "probably a Tudei", which surprised me. To me is feels really clean and I have never had any hangover or negative next-day effects to speak of... I would like to know, as it is one of my favorites that I plan on continuing to consume... Thanks.

He doesn't respond to me anymore, but WOW!/5-Star & Nambawan always have very noble acetone tests.
Deleted User tested both at somepoint by HPLC and acetone...Nambawan was a 423165 chemotype and I think WOW! was 245xxx. Those results align quite well with how I personally experience those kavas. Nambawan; Heady/Balanced, strong. WOW!; Strong, heavy/sedating. Both have a cleaner mild taste and a distinct color when brewed.

245xxx, is about as heavy as you can get before becoming tudei, that chemotype is often considered 'Medicinal'. That's probably why The Kavasseur describes his experience as tudei-like.
The 5-Star producer told me that kava is a mix of Borogoru and Melo Melo, leaning heavily on Borogoru.
Popular Borogoru's have typically been considered 'heavier', that that fits right in again. The guy also told me he planned on phasing out the Melo Melo from the mix, because the plant can't more easily be confused with a Tudei plant, in appearance.

Judd from BKH has also told us that Nambawan is a blend. So certain batches through out the years, should be expected to be slightly different, depending on the plants the batch originated with.

 

[kavamedicine]

He doesn't respond to me anymore, but WOW!/5-Star & Nambawan always have very noble acetone tests.
Deleted User tested both at somepoint by HPLC and acetone...Nambawan was a 423165 chemotype and I think WOW! was 245xxx. Those results align quite well with how I personally experience those kavas. Nambawan; Heady/Balanced, strong. WOW!; Strong, heavy/sedating. Both have a cleaner mild taste and a distinct color when brewed.

245xxx, is about as heavy as you can get before becoming tudei, that chemotype is often considered 'Medicinal'. That's probably why The Kavasseur describes his experience as tudei-like.
The 5-Star producer told me that kava is a mix of Borogoru and Melo Melo, leaning heavily on Borogoru.
Popular Borogoru's have typically been considered 'heavier', that that fits right in again. The guy also told me he planned on phasing out the Melo Melo from the mix, because the plant can't more easily be confused with a Tudei plant, in appearance.

Judd from BKH has also told us that Nambawan is a blend. So certain batches through out the years, should be expected to be slightly different, depending on the plants the batch originated with.

That's very interesting: I have pretty much always experienced the 5-Star has being very heady and uplifting (and of course, quite potent in this regard), with minimal "heaviness"; as I mentioned before almost indistinguishable from the Nambawan. I had my first batch in October of last year (2015) and have had it many times since then... I don't know when you last experienced the Wow/5-Star, but if has been over a year, then could it be that the composition has since changed? Or perhaps simply more evidence that each individual may experience the effects of different strains (i.e. heady/sedating, etc.) quite subjectively?