A Call for a Truth and Reconciliation Discussion on the Noble vs. Tudei Controversy

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

I think it's time we go and drink our favorite kava and leave this thread alone.
Aloha nui loa.

Chris

 

[kasa_balavu]

I don't know about any of that. And I don't really care to hear about it.

Are we talking about Trump, or Hillary?

 

[Groggy]

I just think we ought to work towards a solution that will help everyone in the end. There is no point going around and around. Someone had mentioned transparency and the existence of an inner circle. Let's squash that mentality and move forward. I don't think every vendor is going to participate and I am certainly aware you guys have a lot more knowledge than I do in these matters. At the end of the day, this is the most mature community I have had the privilege of being part of (and I have said some pretty dumb shit too), I don't see why, like everything else, this can't be figured out.

 

[verticity]

I'm not speaking for Judd here, by the way. I don't know about any of that. And I don't really care to hear about it.

Hey, man, you brought it up, so I told you what I remember about it. Maybe you should not raise topics that you don't want to hear people talk about.

I think it's time we go and drink our favorite kava and leave this thread alone.
Aloha nui loa.

Chris

@Deleted User liked this comment!
HE IS WATCHING!!!

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

...Just keeping it mature.

 

[Palmetto]

I believe @Palmetto had mentioned having access to similar equipment, I am not 100% certain he can achieve the same results, but my point is we should look for a solution instead of pointing the finger at one another.

@KrunkyMonkey I don't have access to spectrophotometers anymore, and when I used to get HPLC results on experiments, I had to go to another lab to do it. Right now, my best access is for particle accelerators. I might blast some cuttings with neutrons someday to potentially knock out some genes, but now I only have crude methods for selecting mutants afterward.

 

[verticity]

You'll never hear a TK vendor say a non-TK vendor shouldn't be trusted because they're not a member, and you never should. I'll be the first to say @Kavafied has some really good root, and they're not TK certified. The TK seal is only a guarantee that the kava you're drinking has been tested, and is considered scientifically noble -- nothing more, nothing less. It's merely another point to use in your decision making about which kava to buy next.

I'll add, some other non-TK vendors that I personally like:
Squach Kava
Luna Kava
and, yes, Bula Kava House

 

[verticity]

...Right now, my best access is for particle accelerators. I might blast some cuttings with neutrons someday to potentially knock out some genes, but now I only have crude methods for selecting mutants afterward.

Do it!!!!

 

[verticity]

...to me the elders that went before us and have tested by trial and error for many many years as to what kava is good for us to drink, that is what I am going with along with good science. So it has always been 100% pure Noble for me. Aloha.

Chris

You know you are dangerously close to becoming a revered elder yourself..

 

[verticity]

...
It seems the science has dropped off considerably. Funding is the most likely explanation. Has Dr. Lebot moved on to other subjects? It seems a concentrated effort on the HPTLC and acetonic tests should provide more answers....

Dr. Lebot actually does a lot of research on Pacific food crops like yams, etc. Kava is not his sole, or necessarily even primary, focus, although that is what he is famous for. (The South Pacific Yam Network (SPYN) is a real entity that he is in charge of (unlike the fictitious North American Yam Network, of which I am a charter member)

 

[verticity]

Here's the link:
http://studies.cactuskava.com/

I was just looking at the logs and I'm seeing some weird things going on with the server. I'm upgrading a few things on it right now, so hopefully it'll be stable when it comes back up in 15 minutes or so.

@CactusKava -- and anyone else -- here are the most recent releases of the software. Could you please update your site?

 

[CactusKava]

@CactusKava -- and anyone else -- here are the most recent releases of the software. Could you please update your site?

Yep, I'll put it up there tonight.

 

[verticity]

Thanks for providing historical context. I was aware of some of it, but it's always good to hear more and be reminded of how we got to where we are.
It's a pity that True Kava has a bus factor of one. I'll contact @Deleted User directly with my questions.

In addition to a bus factor of one, it follows zero-order kinetics. In other words, an increased number of kava samples to test does not increase the rate at which they are tested.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Well, it's pretty clear that we are still divided into camps. I'm a champion of Noble Kavas being labeled. I'm also a champion of Tudeis being available. You're only halfway to where we need to be as a community if we don't want to be controlled by the whims of a faction and a cadre of vendors. Sorry to say this, but I think the "rotten can of worms" has been opened again.

You're a well spoken guy, Garry. And I know you're also a good guy. But just because you can construct a good argument doesn't make you right,

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Down with the Kava cartel!

 

[kasa_balavu]

I'm a champion of Noble Kavas being labeled. I'm also a champion of Tudeis being available.

In that case, what's the problem, really?
True Kava handles the first issue, and the (relatively) free market will always take care of the second. All is right in the world. What's the reason for trying to tear down True Kava?

 

[verticity]

Well, it's pretty clear that we are still divided into camps. I'm a champion of Noble Kavas being labeled. I'm also a champion of Tudeis being available. You're only halfway to where we need to be as a community if we don't want to be controlled by the whims of a faction and a cadre of vendors. Sorry to say this, but I think the "rotten can of worms" has been opened again.

You're a well spoken guy, Garry. And I know you're also a good guy. But just because you can construct a good argument doesn't make you right,

I am kind of baffled by this statement. How are we "controlled by the whims of a faction and cadre of vendors"? True Kava has earned a lot of respect among many of us here because of the good work it has done, but TK and TK vendors don't "control" us. That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[verticity]

Down with the Kava cartel!

There is no such thing. This is silly.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

A pseudo-federation that selectively chooses and endorses vendors who conform to their demands. Reminds me of the NFL. "Oh, you want Tudei in your lineup? We won't even endorse your Noble Kava." It's total market control, and as I've said above - the proof is in the pudding. It totally feels like a cartel. Until True Kava agrees that they'll accept Tudei as an option that any vendor can carry - along with certifiable Nobles - then I will refuse to support their Fab Four.