CO2 Extracts Safe or Not? You Decide.

[Groggy]

I consumed labeled tudei kava from HKC for at least two years. My logic was that the tudei was "Stronger" and therefore more cost effective. Those were the dark days of kava information. I once called and spoke with Jonathon Yee about it and he even went as far as to tell me that he didn't understand why anyone would buy it, but it was selling quite rapidly. Hell, I even asked Adil to make a tudei extract. I was all about some non-noble kavas before we were enlightened by Andrew Procyk (Noble Kava, Asheville NC). Once the information was public...things started to make sense, and I've since made the switch to noble kavas only some years ago.

It ripped me a new one. Skin bleeding, painful urination, general malaise. Just overall poor state of health before I realized what was happening. The scary part was that this scenario played out over the whole time frame. I didn't wake up one morning with all the negative symptoms. They built up slowly over time.

was there ever an extract made from tudei?

 

[The Kap'n]

was there ever an extract made from tudei?

Luckily no. He just laughed at me, lol.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

I consumed labeled tudei kava from HKC for at least two years. My logic was that the tudei was "Stronger" and therefore more cost effective. Those were the dark days of kava information. I once called and spoke with Jonathon Yee about it and he even went as far as to tell me that he didn't understand why anyone would buy it, but it was selling quite rapidly. Hell, I even asked Adil to make a tudei extract. I was all about some non-noble kavas before we were enlightened by Andrew Procyk (Noble Kava, Asheville NC). Once the information was public...things started to make sense, and I've since made the switch to noble kavas only some years ago.

It ripped me a new one. Skin bleeding, painful urination, general malaise. Just overall poor state of health before I realized what was happening. The scary part was that this scenario played out over the whole time frame. I didn't wake up one morning with all the negative symptoms. They built up slowly over time.

I never had HKC Tudei, so I can't speak to the side effects. Sounds terrible. Did you try other Tudeis and have the same response?

Speaking of HKC, I saw a post on FB by Jonathan Yee and he seemed to be harvesting huge amounts of Kava. I wonder if we might see a Nene down the road?

 

[The Kap'n]

I never had HKC Tudei, so I can't speak to the side effects. Sounds terrible. Did you try other Tudeis and have the same response?

Speaking of HKC, I saw a post on FB by Jonathan Yee and he seemed to be harvesting huge amounts of Kava. I wonder if we might see a Nene down the road?

Honestly, I'm pretty sure the batch of tudei I had was....super non-noble or something. Every bag up to that one was just generally bad (looking back on it). This one was an extraordinarily bad batch. I'm pretty sure Garry tested it and it was almost black it was so red in the acetone test. In fact, I still have the remains of the bag just to keep a reminder of the worst kava I've ever consumed in my life.

Edit: No negatives to Jonathon or HKC. I knew full well it was Tudei, and it was fully labeled as such. It was one of those things where I just conceded that I had made a mistake....a long term mistake.

Edit2: And @Kavasseur I've tried most of everyone else's labeled tudei kavas they offered (and chief's jungle), and they all pretty much caused the same standard tudei effects (extreme, prolonged sedation). All of them except this one.

 

[Groggy]

Luckily no. He just laughed at me, lol.

Well I am really looking forward to BKH's extract with Adil's contributions, probably the closest I'll get to PK.

 

[Groggy]

@Kapmcrunk Also, In all your time consuming extracts, have you noticed any adverse reactions?

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Paradise Kava's Isa was an absolute treasure. I drank that for a few months straight. It did have two day effects, for sure. But I always took it as a bonus

 

[The Kap'n]

@Kapmcrunk Also, In all your time consuming extracts, have you noticed any adverse reactions?

Nope. Actually eating extracts were a way for me to forgo the adverse reactions such as dermapothy. However just like any kava, if you go HAM on it, it will in turn go HAM on you. So eating a tablespoon at once will definitely cause some skin drying, but nothing like an equivalent dose in non-extract preparations. In short, no extract has ever made me feel anything even remotely similar to a full on non-noble kava. The worst side effect I've gotten from extracts was a 3 hour forced nap.

 

[Groggy]

Nope. Actually eating extracts were a way for me to forgo the adverse reactions such as dermapothy. However just like any kava, if you go HAM on it, it will in turn go HAM on you. So eating a tablespoon at once will definitely cause some skin drying, but nothing like an equivalent dose in non-extract preparations. In short, no extract has ever made me feel anything even remotely similar to a full on non-noble kava. The worst side effect I've gotten from extracts was a 3 hour forced nap.

I meant in comparison to a noble kava.

 

[The Kap'n]

@KrunkyMonkey In comparison to noble kavas the side effects of extracts are (to me) 1:1. You can expect the same side effects as medium grind noble kavas. The only difference is the amount required to reach them. Extracts requiring more to achieve the same side effect profile.

 

[Groggy]

@KrunkyMonkey In comparison to noble kavas the side effects of extracts are (to me) 1:1. You can expect the same side effects as medium grind noble kavas. The only difference is the amount required to reach them. Extracts requiring more to achieve the same side effect profile.

I am a heavy drinker, what would you recommend in extract qt, to achieve the equivalent of say 1/2 cup of root to 2 cups of water?

 

[The Kap'n]

I am a heavy drinker, what would you recommend in extract qt, to achieve the equivalent of say 1/2 cup of root to 2 cups of water?

Whenever I take an extract I usually start with a full teaspoon to 1/3 a tablespoon. That will approach what root powder will give you. It's kind of a test and see sort of thing, or at least it was for me.

 

[The Kap'n]

Yes, When I discovered the "online world" of kava I was quite intrigued by this mysterious "two-day kava". I was only familiar with standard, "dairy" (corner shop) kavas sold around NZ or the watery stuff I had in Tonga and a few other places in Polynesia. The "two day kava" sounded like a very potent version of those kavas. In fact, it was advertised as "specialty" kava for "real connoisseurs". Definitely "not for beginners", which made me initially believe that it must have been indeed simply a much stronger/better version of the normal stuff. I too wondered why on Earth anyone would actually purchase the weaker stuff if there is some kava that makes one "relaxed" for two days. Thank God I did my research first and quickly learned that the term refers more to the hangover rather than the relaxation. One paper from a few years ago actually uses the terms "two day hangover kava" and "hangover kava" to describe it. I then learned about flavokavains, chemotypes etc and became even more perplexed that some people were drinking that stuff. After a while one of the vendors here sold me a tudei-spiked kava (could have actually been wild kava judging by the later acetone test results). I got physically sick from it. I can still remember its taste, I can still remember the next day sickness, the diarrhea, the lethargy. It was fucking vile. I also remember that the vendor claimed it was simply "a stronger batch!". Thank God for @Deleted User , kava testing and the new vendors. I am also glad that that particular vendor has apparently cleaned up his act.

I think I've read quite a lot about kava and I've met quite a lot of drinkers (hundreds?). So far, the only people who have used tudei deliberately I've heard of or met are a handful of people on this forum, women who have experienced miscarriage in Vanuatu and mourners in PNG. Apparently there are places in PNG where people drink buckets of wild kava during or after funerals. It is meant to make them suffer, make them "stunned", sedated and in the state of lethargy and apathy. In other words, it's meant to be used as a "mourning kava". I think Lebot was describing those practices in on of his earlier articles, but I could be mistaken. Perhaps it was Huffman.

Henry, did your kava have a misplaced "ocean water" type salty flavor to it? I knew instantly that I was in trouble when my kava had this attribute.

 

[Groggy]

Whenever I take an extract I usually start with a full teaspoon to 1/3 a tablespoon. That will approach what root powder will give you. It's kind of a test and see sort of thing, or at least it was for me.

What's a typical session for you, in extract? Assuming you are using something you are familiar with.

 

[The Kap'n]

What's a typical session for you, in extract? Assuming you are using something you are familiar with.

1/4 to 1/2 tablespoon over the course of a couple of hours if I remain in the "awake" mode.

 

[The Kap'n]

Not really. It had more of an almost sour, stale flavour. The extreme version of the worst bitterness mixed with a spicy, peppery and foul after taste. A bit of a piney aroma, but hardly noticable in the ocean of very thick, "dark", bitter taste. The after taste was particularly bad and almost made me vomit. @shakas described it as "repulsive". I agree.

Gotcha. Man this one was a special kind of awful. Like someone spilled a salt shaker into it. Never ran into any kavas that ever tasted or affected me as negatively as this one. Never had one noble kava like that, not one.

 

[verticity]

I consumed labeled tudei kava from HKC for at least two years. My logic was that the tudei was "Stronger" and therefore more cost effective. Those were the dark days of kava information. I once called and spoke with Jonathon Yee about it and he even went as far as to tell me that he didn't understand why anyone would buy it, but it was selling quite rapidly. Hell, I even asked Adil to make a tudei extract. I was all about some non-noble kavas before we were enlightened by Andrew Procyk (Noble Kava, Asheville NC). Once the information was public...things started to make sense, and I've since made the switch to noble kavas only some years ago....

Well actually, Lebot discussed tudei vs. noble kava in his book (Kava, The Pacific Elixer, 1997). In the book Lebot talks about how farmers would save the best (noble) kava for themselves, and sell tudei to foreigners who didn't know any better, and pharmaceutical companies, who didn't care. (I don't know if the earlier edition of the book called The Pacific Drug talked about it, because I haven't seen that edition). The issue was well known long before Procyk made his videos. It's not like a recent discovery by any means.

 

[The Kap'n]

Well actually, Lebot discussed tudei vs. noble kava in his book (Kava, The Pacific Elixer, 1997). In the book Lebot talks about how farmers would save the best (noble) kava for themselves, and sell tudei to foreigners who didn't know any better, and pharmaceutical companies, who didn't care. (I don't know if the earlier edition of the book called The Pacific Drug talked about it, because I haven't seen that edition). The issue was well known long before Procyk made his videos. It's not like a recent discovery by any means.

Totally. I was referring to the online kava zeitgeist. Info was there, just not very widely known or understood at the time.

 

[verticity]

Totally. I was referring to the online kava zeitgeist. Info was there, just not very widely known or understood at the time.

Die Zeitgeister sind ändern

 

[Kanazky]

@Gourmet Hawaiian Kava Hey Chris,

Awesome write up bud, glad to hear your sticking by your roots. I think the extract makes a lot of sense on the go, be awesome as a benefit to a day of biking around or tanning at the park in the sun.

I was wondering if you would post a YouTube video describing and showing the process you used so that some of us if we choose could do it ourselves. Maybe through a collective mind we could refine the process.

Best wishes,
Jacob