kastom_lif
Kava Lover
PNG doesn't even grow tudei. "Tudei" is a Vanuatu term for their own non-noble kava.
Tudei, non-noble and isa are not the same thing.
Seminole City Council moves to ban kava
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Tudei, non-noble and isa are not the same thing.
SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
I'm aware of this and distinguished between them in my post. Most users on the forum consider anything not certified noble to be "tudei". It is clear that the pro noble movement considers anything not noble to be in it's own dangerous class and as I've pointed out any ban will either include a product called "kava", the plant "Piper methysticum" or chemical compounds that are thought to be dangerous, which will effectively ban all cultivars. I'm just being realistic, non noble kava will not be off the market anytime soon and US lawmakers and regulators are not going to be open to making the distinction, especially when other agendas are at play.
I honestly don't think this specific instance involves tudei kava. It has everything to do with krava bars, and the culture that's spreading due to them. The pairing and selling of K@ and kava is now actually causing harm to kava. The tudei issue is secondary in my mind to this.
SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
That's a possibility but what I find concerning is that they have kava grouped in with K@, bath salts and synthetic cannabinoids. To me that is an indication that they don't really know the difference between these substances and were just getting suggestions by people equally as ignorant. The news article doesn't seem to have much detail into the mindset of the council.
SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
The codex standard might be beneficial for some people in some locations but it's not going to ensure legality in the US. Even if the FDA were willing to adopt it (which they won't) and enforce it here, it would not stop cities/counties/states from imposing their own bans.
It's possible but we don't have enough details at this point to know exactly why. What I have seen many times is that K@ will be thrown into a bill or local law along with a big list of synthetic chemicals, then when citizens engage with city councils and law makers and make them aware that it is ground up plant material, it is almost always removed. The same thing can and probably will happen with kava.
kastom_lif
Kava Lover
It would be so ironic if this town banned kava and kr@ only to ignore betel nut.
Coming soon to a Florida bar near you... red sidewalks. Red teeth! More carcinogens than tobacco! But hey, it's legal so it must be alright, eh?
Hang on, lemme register BuaiBarista.com real quick...
Coming soon to a Florida bar near you... red sidewalks. Red teeth! More carcinogens than tobacco! But hey, it's legal so it must be alright, eh?
Hang on, lemme register BuaiBarista.com real quick...
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verticity
I'm interested in things
This is how the local media is portraying "(K@ and kava)." Be prepared to get angry at 0:17. I'm pretty sure @Kalm with Kava does not sell his product in head shops in Tampa so this is very misleading... And please tweet politely at this reporter as she does seem to be responsive to comments...
kastom_lif
Kava Lover
Kalm with Kava
Kava Vendor
Thanks for the heads up. Looks like I need to send some emails.
SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
The news report really wasn't bad other than showing tons of head shop products that people shouldn't be buying. The reporter showed both sides and gave the herb supporters a voice.
It does bring attention to another challenge that kava will face in that it is promoted so much to get people off of illicit drugs. When the FDA commissioner gave his poorly researched statement on K@ last month, one thing that he made very clear is that the FDA will not allow anything to be marketed or sold for the purpose of getting people off of addictive drugs unless it is an FDA approved product (pharmaceutical). As I've said repeatedly, there are challenges that the community will need to address in the future and it will be better to stay ahead and not wait for things to get out of control.
It does bring attention to another challenge that kava will face in that it is promoted so much to get people off of illicit drugs. When the FDA commissioner gave his poorly researched statement on K@ last month, one thing that he made very clear is that the FDA will not allow anything to be marketed or sold for the purpose of getting people off of addictive drugs unless it is an FDA approved product (pharmaceutical). As I've said repeatedly, there are challenges that the community will need to address in the future and it will be better to stay ahead and not wait for things to get out of control.
verticity
I'm interested in things
The full report does show some kr@t defenders, whom I actually agree with, but I would not call it good for kava in any way because it completely fails to distinguish kava from krat, or even to say anything about kava at all other than to keep repeating it in the same sentence with krat, and then some guy says "bula" at the end... If your only knowledge of kava came from this clip you would probably be left with the very wrong impression that it is just some variety of K@ or something similar to it... This depiction of kava is IMO appalling..
verticity
I'm interested in things
It's just like... It's a local news outlet, so naturally they seek out the nearest local people they can find with an opinion on the topic, which is fine. But it's modern times now! There is a world of expertise literally at your fingertips, why not also seek out some real experts if the people you interview by their own admission know nothing?
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SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
The report was good in that it wasn't telling a story of a city counsel that was saving the citizens from a dangerous herbal supplement. They could have portrayed both herbs in a negative way to help drive local support for the ban.
https://www.fsunews.com/story/life/2018/03/18/investigating-kavacraze-over-kava-and-K@/435271002/
Check out how many times kava and K@ are interchanged at random during this article.
The issue is deep. Arising in the early 2000s
What's not helping is that people see our plight for the integrity of kava as some roundabout way of stabbing K@ in the back.
Edit: It even calls them "cousins".
Check out how many times kava and K@ are interchanged at random during this article.
The issue is deep. Arising in the early 2000s
What's not helping is that people see our plight for the integrity of kava as some roundabout way of stabbing K@ in the back.
Edit: It even calls them "cousins".
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verticity
I'm interested in things
Aaaaaaarg. At the beginning there I almost thought they were going to get it right when they explained that kava targets "non-opioid brain pathways". Defining a unique plant as the negation of something else which it is completely unrelated to is not ideal. But then the "stoner TED talk" (which is a great description actually) began
BS Quote:
"Michael likens potential dependency on kava to caffeine or alcohol addiction, but he “doesn’t think it’s bad...really, any vice that’s going to tickle the receptors in your brain, you have the opportunity to become dependent.” "
This is when I do my root head John Oliver act: "NO, Michael! No, no, no! Bad Michael! Kava is non addictive! It does NOT tickle the receptors in your brain! You're not helping!"
Right? It's as if they forgot which was which half way through writing the article.
Edit: and I found this article by simply going to google news and typing in kava. It was the first article, so I didn't even have to dig to find this ridiculousness.
recentreturn
Kava Enthusiast
Damn. "The substances are dangerous..." No distinction between the substances at all. (but, PLEASE WORLD, stop using the argument that a "natural substance in a natural form" is safe! Worst argument ever).
This video is proof, though, that the association between kava and K@ really does make people not distinguish them. I was somewhat agnostic about that question; but it is really clear here: people are worried about K@ and kava is implicated by association; they will probably stand or fall together in that town.
...and I have to say, I also find @SelfBiasResistor 's concerns (re: speech about Tudei) very valid (though I'm not saying that concerns about Tudei shouldn't be voiced). It's hard to imagine a government entity having enough resources to say one category of Piper Methysticum is fine and another category is not fine. And its even harder to imagine a government entity saying that one category of the plant is dangerous while trusting the public to make the distinction and choose to buy noble.
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That's some Bulashit isn't it?
recentreturn
Kava Enthusiast
Its also irritating when the official says that "there's very little research;" In one sense that might be relatively true. However, I think 3000 years of human consumption and the place it holds in society in a place like Fiji should have SOME sort of weight in the argument!
I personally wouldn't care if they moved just to require the herb to be used according to traditional (or neotraditional) methods (i.e. not "Captain Kava Dabs" as pictured in the video, ugh).
SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
What a terrible article. It's not surprising though. Our society as a whole isn't very open to recreational psychoactive substances that users claim improves health or can be used medicinally. From the article :
"It’s always a red flag to hear that a single product can address a multitude of medical issues, such as calming properties that may relieve anxiety and stress-related symptoms such as muscle tension or spasms. It's even more dangerous of a claim to advertise the unregulated product as a cure for substance addiction—and that’s the news being spread about kava; it can cure opiate addiction."
This is the mindset that our regulators have. If/when K@ gets banned, there will be a spike of people turning to kava for the reasons mentioned here and that will get even more attention on the plant and paint a big bullseye. It would help tremendously if we had a well organized advocacy group that could respond to these poorly educated journalists and educate them in hopes of getting retractions or edits or even approach friendly journalists to write informative, positive articles to counter the BS that we know will be printed.
"It’s always a red flag to hear that a single product can address a multitude of medical issues, such as calming properties that may relieve anxiety and stress-related symptoms such as muscle tension or spasms. It's even more dangerous of a claim to advertise the unregulated product as a cure for substance addiction—and that’s the news being spread about kava; it can cure opiate addiction."
This is the mindset that our regulators have. If/when K@ gets banned, there will be a spike of people turning to kava for the reasons mentioned here and that will get even more attention on the plant and paint a big bullseye. It would help tremendously if we had a well organized advocacy group that could respond to these poorly educated journalists and educate them in hopes of getting retractions or edits or even approach friendly journalists to write informative, positive articles to counter the BS that we know will be printed.
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