So I read on here that lots of ppl still get higher liver enzymes after using kava?

[Deleted User01]

Thanks for understanding guys. I am very impressed by the community here and all of your passion to uphold the good name of kava with scientific backing

I totally understand now and I also apologize for not spotting that earlier. Your concerns now make total sense to me and I can understand how you go up and down like a yo yo trying to analyze the good and the bad. Perhaps a shell of "Super Noble Non-Harmful Kava" might calm the mind a little bit. Cheers! I mean Bula!

 

[sumguy]

But at the time of the ban, the FDA simply parroted the faulty German "facts", and their warnings are still spread throughout the internet in various forms on a large number of websites. The FDA now qualifies this warning as "archived" but they will never remove it, and it will take many years to undo the damage it has caused.

Is this the same warning that is on product packaging? And do you have a link to where the FDA says it's archived?

 

[Geiourht]

Ok reading again thru all the replies make alot more sense now esp. regarding comments about the indiginous ppl being indiginous aussies not pacific ppl . I feel silly for missing that.

But that leads to the question someone else posed, has there still not be any studies of the islander's liver enzymes and the like? This is quite surprising if not, seems like it would be a logical and fairly easy thing to do since the governemnt seems very cooperative with scientists for the sake of supporting the export trade.

 

[verticity]

But that leads to the question someone else posed, has there still not be any studies of the islander's liver enzymes and the like? This is quite surprising if not, seems like it would be a logical and fairly easy thing to do since the governemnt seems very cooperative with scientists for the sake of supporting the export trade.

That is an excellent point. AFAIK it has not been done, but it would be very interesting to do a study like that. It might not be so easy though on, for example, Vanuatu, because the small population is scattered over many remote islands.

 

[kavadude]

I don't think there has been a study like that. What we do know is that people from cultures which consume kava heavily are at no greater risk of liver issues than Western populations. It would be great to have a comparison study between Islanders who do and don't consume kava.

 

[verticity]

I don't think there has been a study like that. What we do know is that people from cultures which consume kava heavily are at no greater risk of liver issues than Western populations. It would be great to have a comparison study between Islanders who do and don't consume kava.

Well, how do we know that in the absence of studies?

 

[kavadude]

I believe it's the fact that no cases of liver toxicity have been reported in these countries as a result of kava consumption (as opposed to a study which measures liver enzymes, or ideally something like an ultrasound). Everything I say comes from a slosh of having read everything I can about kava, so hopefully someone will back this up or call it out.

 

[verticity]

I believe it's the fact that no cases of liver toxicity have been reported in these countries as a result of kava consumption (as opposed to a study which measures liver enzymes, or ideally something like an ultrasound). Everything I say comes from a slosh of having read everything I can about kava, so hopefully someone will back this up or call it out.

Yes, I've heard that, but not seen actual epidemiological data on it, so one can't help but wonder if the lack of reported cases is due to the lack of reporting (few doctors and hospitals) or an actual lack of cases. (Devil's advocate mode )

 

[kavadude]

I'm totally willing to go there on a crowdfunded fact finding mission. I'll let you know if I see anyone who looks noticably jaundiced.

 

[verticity]

I'm totally willing to go there on a crowdfunded fact finding mission. I'll let you know if I see anyone who looks noticably jaundiced.

Start a GoFundMe. Bring some sexy nurses with you.

 

[Geiourht]

Are there actually any warning signs of liver damage before its too late? I read before that becuase the liver doesnt feel pain you could be close to fatal damage before the signs show.

 

[sumguy]

This is what it says on the Gaia capsules bottle:

Stop use and see a doctor if you develop symptoms that may signal liver problems, including jaundice (yellowing of the skin or whites of the eyes) and brown urine. Other nonspecific symptoms can include nausea, vomiting, light-colored stools, unexplained tiredness, weakness, stomach or abdominal pain, and loss of appetite.

 

[Geiourht]

Ye ive read about those but i think that is when serious damage has occured .

Perhaps the person on here with hapatitis could better advise on the warning signs

 

[verticity]

Dark urine
Light poop
Yellow skin
Get your liver checked by a doctor regularly, and don't worry too much
Reminder: don't drink alcohol or use Tylenol (Paracetamol) with kava!
(If you are truly concerned about avoiding liver damage, don't drink alcohol at all, actually, whether you drink kava or not <== my opinion; many people drink in moderation with no problem)

 

[Geiourht]

NO worries there I despise alcohol

Have you guys read this: http://www.ahpa.org/portals/0/pdfs/11_0303_March2011_AHPA_Report_Kava_Special_Report.pdf

Seems to be a good up to date overview of the current body of evidence.

 

[sumguy]

The problem with the list of nonspecific symptoms (like light poop) is that other things can cause them as well. For instance, I tried using Cholestoff Plus on Saturday and Sunday and this morning my poop was greyish and since then it's still been lighter than usual. I'm pretty sure it's just the Cholestoff Plus making it so that fat doesn't get absorbed (ie: doing its job). But I think I'm going to lay off both that and the kava until things go back to normal just in case. (And I probably won't be taking any more CP).

The CP combined with fish oil apparently also caused the worst insomnia I've had in a while. I ended up using kava candy at about 2 am this morning to finally go to sleep after melatonin and chlorphenamine didn't help.

 

[verticity]

The problem with the list of nonspecific symptoms (like light poop) is that other things can cause them as well.

This is true: the ultimate authority really is your doctor.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

I don't think there has been a study like that. What we do know is that people from cultures which consume kava heavily are at no greater risk of liver issues than Western populations. It would be great to have a comparison study between Islanders who do and don't consume kava.

I believe that people have studied the differences between men and women in the kava drinking countries (where women do not drink any kava, but have a similar access to health care, nutrition, etc) and it seems that no significant negative effects can be linked to regular kava consumption. If anything, kava consumption seems to correlate with a lower risk of cancer

 

[sumguy]

I thought this was an interesting case related to this thread:
http://www.onpointnews.com/NEWS/kava-suit-puts-liver-toxicity-theory-to-test.html