Another Liver Function Test Post

[Steve T]

SGPT (ALT)[2 - 60 U/L]- 85H
SGOT (AST)[2 - 50 U/L]- 48

Just sharing some results here. These were from a LFT done 12/12/14 on Friday. I drank 6-7 tbsp of kava the night before. As you can see my ALT is 85 which is slightly elevated. I have had multiple other blood tests done since June which have all come back normal. The reason I got tested in June in the first place was from experiencing a variety of symptoms which I felt needed immediate attention, after drinking lots of tudei-spiked kava (I didn't know at the time) a few days before. By the way I am 31, 6'3 161lbs (skinny), with a decent workout schedule and good eating habits.

Other medications I take are 25mg quetiapine(seroquel) which could elevate enzymes, and 5mb ambien. Then supplements of a multivitamin, r-lipoic acid, NAC, milk thistle.

I would like to say that it is a fluke, an Advil the night before, a workout, or just seroquel, but I've been feeling signs of liver stress in varying degrees since I've drank kava. I've drank all noble since June. No alcohol for 2.5 years, but before that I drank somewhat heavily for 4 years.

My "hangover" symptoms when drinking too much noble kava (especially with high 2 or 5 chemotypes) are obvious, but with tudei it was totally unbearable. So if you feel hangover symptoms from drinking a moderate amount of good kava I would just be careful and get tested. Maybe some people just aren't genetically predisposed to drinking 5-8 tbsp of noble per night I like do, haha.

Anyway I will wait to see what this means and continue drinking kava until a doctor yells at me. The excuse that I drank kava the night before the test doesn't mean much to me personally, because if I drink kava every single night and it kills liver cells every single night then it's not sustainable long-term. Or maybe I just don't know anything about the test yet. I've seen 4-5 other people on this forum with similar results, and a lot more with low enzymes, so I'd just be aware like with any medication.

 

[blindy107]

Thanks for posting that. Please keep us up to speed on your findings!

 

[DylanJ]

NAC can raise your liver enzymes it says that right on the bottle I take. It says it can show elevated enzymes in liver test without actually imparing liver function. Check it out

 

[Deleted User01]

Thanks for sharing Steve T, when I saw your results my first questions was, "What is he drinking?". My results were relatively high last year (38 and 31) when I was unknowningly drinking blended kava. Funny how 40 years of drinking alcohol never did that. I have about 7 years of blood tests on my spreadsheet. Anyway, the two blood tests came out to 16 and 19, a twofold improvement. So watch out for the "blended Kava" but you may also need to reevaluate your diet as a while and see if there are any loose ends that need to be tightened up. One other thing, I used to take Advil like candy until my doctor said, "Why". I replied, "I dunna". So I quit doing that because it really was doing much for me (headaches, tendonitis, etc).

 

[Steve T]

Thank you for the comments. It could be NAC but it's unlikely. I would love to say that it's seroquel, since that med has given me other problems like increased prolactin. I drink only noble kava, for example Papa Ele Ele all that week. The data is very lacking and the bad thing is they'll obviously blame kava, tell me to stop taking all meds, and test me a bunch of times. Kava is very helpful for me so it's hard to take an honest look at it and think about quitting completely, but I guess I'll find out.

The ALT levels aren't super high, and for someone who drinks 5-7 tbsp of noble nearly every single day maybe this test result is expected. So for people who drink the same amount that I do, I would just be careful. It could be that noble kava is safe to drink 3 times a week, or once in a while like Polynesians did, but not every single day as a medication. 5-7 tbsp is a lot, way above the guideline doses, and even if you drink that much table sugar at night it will have an effect on your liver.

 

[Deleted User01]

Like myself, you are not going to give up Kava. So just search through your diet and get rid of other stuff that may be effecting it. And don't forget that something you did the night before could have an effect too. The good thing is that you are doing the lab tests and nothing is going to sneak up on you and surprise you.

 

[Alia]

SGPT (ALT)[2 - 60 U/L]- 85H
SGOT (AST)[2 - 50 U/L]- 48

Just sharing some results here. These were from a LFT done 12/12/14 on Friday. I drank 6-7 tbsp of kava the night before. As you can see my ALT is 85 which is slightly elevated. I have had multiple other blood tests done since June which have all come back normal. The reason I got tested in June in the first place was from experiencing a variety of symptoms which I felt needed immediate attention, after drinking lots of tudei-spiked kava (I didn't know at the time) a few days before. By the way I am 31, 6'3 161lbs (skinny), with a decent workout schedule and good eating habits.

Other medications I take are 25mg quetiapine(seroquel) which could elevate enzymes, and 5mb ambien. Then supplements of a multivitamin, r-lipoic acid, NAC, milk thistle.

I would like to say that it is a fluke, an Advil the night before, a workout, or just seroquel, but I've been feeling signs of liver stress in varying degrees since I've drank kava. I've drank all noble since June. No alcohol for 2.5 years, but before that I drank somewhat heavily for 4 years.

My "hangover" symptoms when drinking too much noble kava (especially with high 2 or 5 chemotypes) are obvious, but with tudei it was totally unbearable. So if you feel hangover symptoms from drinking a moderate amount of good kava I would just be careful and get tested. Maybe some people just aren't genetically predisposed to drinking 5-8 tbsp of noble per night I like do, haha.

Anyway I will wait to see what this means and continue drinking kava until a doctor yells at me. The excuse that I drank kava the night before the test doesn't mean much to me personally, because if I drink kava every single night and it kills liver cells every single night then it's not sustainable long-term. Or maybe I just don't know anything about the test yet. I've seen 4-5 other people on this forum with similar results, and a lot more with low enzymes, so I'd just be aware like with any medication.

 

[Alia]

Thank you Steve T for this overview. There is a good research paper out now in Fitoterapia at ScienceDirect "Contemporary Pacific and Western perspectives on 'awa (Piper methysticum) toxicology", well researched and worth finding and reading. Good news for kava drinkers as long as you know just what you are drinking. I've been drinking fresh kava/'awa beverage every evening since 1999 turned to 2000 and my yearly liver tests are great. Before 1999 I drank beverage made from dry kava -- just fine also. Like you, I drink no alcohol.

 

[Deleted User01]

Welcome Alia! That's good news for all of us here. Looks like you were drinking kava before Kava was Kewl. Are you a descendant of Islander who drank kava? My point is that I have always wondered if the descendants of the original Kava drinkers are immune to potential problems and that perhaps Westerners are not. Maybe something in the diet or even the genes. Just a little food for thought. But never the less, that report is still good news.

 

[Alia]

Welcome Alia! That's good news for all of us here. Looks like you were drinking kava before Kava was Kewl. Are you a descendant of Islander who drank kava? My point is that I have always wondered if the descendants of the original Kava drinkers are immune to potential problems and that perhaps Westerners are not. Maybe something in the diet or even the genes. Just a little food for thought. But never the less, that report is still good news.

The idea that you suggest regarding "descendants of the original Kava drinkers" is actually discussed in the paper I referred to. Complete with references but no firm conclusion. I am mixed heritage but unlikely any Polynesian. Personally, I feel the key is to know what (kava) you are drinking. In September 2014 University of Minnesota published a study showing Acetaminophen potentiates Flavokawains A and B liver problems. (Chemical Research in Toxicology). In Nov. PLOS One published a study demonstrating great variability in kava products themselves- that is why it is so important to know what you are getting. It is gratifying that these studies all seem to say the traditionally, daily consumed kavas are fine and safe. It is wonderful also to have Forums like this where people can share knowledge. Thank you.

 

[Steve T]

Thank you Steve T for this overview. There is a good research paper out now in Fitoterapia at ScienceDirect "Contemporary Pacific and Western perspectives on 'awa (Piper methysticum) toxicology", well researched and worth finding and reading. Good news for kava drinkers as long as you know just what you are drinking. I've been drinking fresh kava/'awa beverage every evening since 1999 turned to 2000 and my yearly liver tests are great. Before 1999 I drank beverage made from dry kava -- just fine also. Like you, I drink no alcohol.

Thank you for that article. I found it and I would like to read it, but it's $35. I am interested in the results though. For example if it says Westerners react better to Hawaiian kava than Vanuatu kava, I could definitely apply that information.

 

[Deleted User01]

The idea that you suggest regarding "descendants of the original Kava drinkers" is actually discussed in the paper I referred to. Complete with references but no firm conclusion. I am mixed heritage but unlikely any Polynesian. Personally, I feel the key is to know what (kava) you are drinking. In September 2014 University of Minnesota published a study showing Acetaminophen potentiates Flavokawains A and B liver problems. (Chemical Research in Toxicology). In Nov. PLOS One published a study demonstrating great variability in kava products themselves- that is why it is so important to know what you are getting. It is gratifying that these studies all seem to say the traditionally, daily consumed kavas are fine and safe. It is wonderful also to have Forums like this where people can share knowledge. Thank you.

Well, I'm glad I give up Tylenol and Advil.
Also, it seems like the study is saying what we have started to say. Don't drink blended Kavas. Drink Noble Kavas safely the way the Islanders did 3000 years ago. @Alia, are you up to date with all the testing that @Deleted User is doing? We are really getting serious around here about finding out which Kavas are Noble and which are not. Some of the members are already noticing a decline in side effects when they switch to 100% Noble Kava. So there you go Steve, dump the Acetaminophen and only drink Noble Kava tested by @Deleted User. That should be a damn good start. For those that want access to @Harpos tests, you can find some on the Kava Library or ask KapmKrunk to give you access to the special section on this forum. Thanks for all the good info @Alia.

 

[Steve T]

Well, I'm glad I give up Tylenol and Advil.
Also, it seems like the study is saying what we have started to say. Don't drink blended Kavas. Drink Noble Kavas safely the way the Islanders did 3000 years ago. @Alia, are you up to date with all the testing that @Deleted User is doing? We are really getting serious around here about finding out which Kavas are Noble and which are not. Some of the members are already noticing a decline in side effects when they switch to 100% Noble Kava. So there you go Steve, dump the Acetaminophen and only drink Noble Kava tested by @Deleted User. That should be a damn good start. For those that want access to @Harpos tests, you can find some on the Kava Library or ask KapmKrunk to give you access to the special section on this forum. Thanks for all the good info @Alia.

Thanks Deleted User01.

Just to reiterate though for other people's information: I only drink noble kava, and never take acetaminophen. By only noble kava I mean GHK exclusively, all of which have been tested as noble by Deleted User except for Mahakea which is extremely likely to be noble. Secondly, I can tell that these kavas are noble because the hangovers I get from unfresh, not 100% noble kava are very intolerable. For example, 2 nights ago (after my LFT, not before) I tried Best Fiji Kava, and was hungover more than usual because it is not processed as well as Chris's.

I know that my test points to uncertain conclusions about noble kava, but honestly who knows until I get more tests. It could be seroquel. Or maybe I've had cirrhosis for 3 years and never knew about it, or I worked out too much that week, or whatever. Or maybe noble kava isn't very good for you, but a risk reward analysis makes it worth it compared to other anxiety medications. Either way facts are facts.

 

[Deleted User01]

Steve T, your tests might also have been an anomaly. So let's hope the next one clears everything up. Anyway, the results are high but not that high.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

I should probably be aware of these things, but I am not. I haven't seen a doctor in a decade. I figure if I have survived 7 bouts of malaria, cholera, typhus, and several other big ones then I have either become extremely strong or extremely fragile. I'm a fair-weather Western medicine fan. I would probably only enter a hospital if I got stabbed or my appendix exploded.

 

[blindy107]

Doug....you are amazing. That reminds me of those people you here about that keep crashing cars and ODing and stuff but keep on trucking. You aren't inflicting this on yourself though..hah.

@Steve T I have been drinking 6-10tbsp of noble and mostly questionable kava every single day for roughly a year. I know it's not that long but I jumped in both feet forward and haven't taken more than a 24hr break in at least 12 months. Just saying...maybe look at other parts of your diet or med intake as well. My results were stellar aside from cholesterol!

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Well, the way I see it is that if you buy a strain that makes you feel sick, then you're probably best off not continuing to drink it. You probably feel sick for a reason, right? Just sayin'

 

[Steve T]

Just letting you guys know, this test was the real deal. I only drank fresh, verified noble kava and had twice the 1.5-2x ALT levels. I am probably a good guinea pig because I have all my bases covered with right prep method, dosage, supplier, etc. Noble kava does stress the liver through some mechanism we don't know of yet.

After a week of no kava I honestly feel better. If I continued drinking kava like I had, I probably would end up in the hospital and would have turned out to be one of those few case reports on kava's hepatotixicity. So I still have to compare a good krunking to 12 beers hangover-wise, and probably liver-damage-wise. Which means once a week/month I might drink it after I heal. However I will still get it checked out by the doctor.

I would honestly just be careful. There are risks, it's like beer. People can drink a 6pack a day and never have health issues. Same with kava.

 

[starscolliding]

Side note, I've had a bunch of people switch from Ambien to Gaia 'Sound Sleep' (1, 2 or 3 pills) and melatonin 3mg. Ambien is no good long term. People have said to watch Valerian with kava, so any day I do Kava I don't take the Sound Sleep, but that is from an abundance of caution and not from a need. And they keep changing the formula, not sure how much Valerian it even has now, I think it is more passionflower these days.

 

[ApéroNoble]

Hi Steve T,

Have you factored the effects of Seroquel & its potential interaction with kava?


Seroquel use may cause elevated liver enzymes. Elevated liver enzymes indicate liver inflammation or damage to liver cells. Seroquel use may damage liver cells and cause the injured cells to leak higher than normal amounts of liver enzymes. Elevated liver enzymes can be detected during liver function tests. Patients taking Seroquel may need regular liver function tests.
Liver inflammation from Seroquel use may cause symptoms such as upper right hand-side abdominal pain and distension, fatigue, dark urine, general itching, yellowing of the skin and eyes, pale or clay colored stools, fever, loss of appetite, nausea and vomiting, fever and weight loss, according to PubMedHealth. Patients who experience these symptoms should contact their doctors. Liver inflammation can progress into liver failure.