Another Liver Function Test Post

[Steve T]

Hi Steve T,

Have you factored the effects of Seroquel & its potential interaction with kava?


Seroquel use may cause elevated liver enzymes. Elevated liver enzymes indicate liver inflammation or damage to liver cells. Seroquel use may damage liver cells and cause the injured cells to leak higher than normal amounts of liver enzymes. Elevated liver enzymes can be detected during liver function tests. Patients taking Seroquel may need regular liver function tests.
Liver inflammation from Seroquel use may cause symptoms such as upper right hand-side abdominal pain and distension, fatigue, dark urine, general itching, yellowing of the skin and eyes, pale or clay colored stools, fever, loss of appetite, nausea and vomiting, fever and weight loss, according to PubMedHealth. Patients who experience these symptoms should contact their doctors. Liver inflammation can progress into liver failure.

I don't think so. I've only taken seroquel for 2 months before the LFT. I felt like crap all summer with no seroquel. Not to mention I stopped seroquel 2 weeks ago and still felt hangovers while drinking kava after that. I have a sleep journal where I write down exactly how much kava I drank, what meds I took that day, what I ate, how I felt, and it goes back to April 2014. I have it documented in doctor's notes as well. My skin had a yellowish tint, but not jaundice (since my eyes weren't yellow), and it is starting to fade. If a researcher wants me for a kava study I'm all ears.

 

[Pink]

My skin had a yellowish tint

Sounds nasty,is there any troubles with your liver-hard drinking before you started kava.
Also when you say spoons 4-8-do you mean micro,root or instant.

So far been experimenting with kava myself,and worst i got nauseous from making strong root batch,and feeling bloated from making batch with root leftovers like 2-4g.
Which happened only twice or so.

Since when i think of micro kava-correct me if im wrong its just root made into finer grind-and thus you still basically drink root just in finer form,where instant doesnt leave traces.

also was amazed by straining it as well,trough nylon,since when poured it trough really fine mesh like where even dust particles get traped i was left with spoon size amount of leftovers,even thou i used about 5 full spoons.

Since im no expert in kava field at all,just thinking not everyone can handle it the same,as you look at traditions,how islanders make it and use it,its nearly pure mud water.of course for rituals they might make it stronger,as in less water but consumption is also way lower.As most of us tend to prepare and drink it daily with huge amounts to achieve krunk effect or just that euphoric feeling.Also my knowledge is limited to documentaries seen,so dont know is it became so popular there that people would use it every day,and use such amounts,instead of a way to socialize after days work,not like us westerns who like to add more throttle on everything.

Just my pfilosofy thinking here atm ,since im doing bula time

 

[TheKavaSociety]

@Steve T Have you considered taking milk thistle? It is a very powerful hepatoprotector and many people on this forum take it (as a kind of precaution). Also, you may consider switching from your regular tea/coke to rooibos tea which also might be good for your liver (http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/52/52_461.pdf).

 

[Steve T]

@Steve T Have you considered taking milk thistle? It is a very powerful hepatoprotector and many people on this forum take it (as a kind of precaution). Also, you may consider switching from your regular tea/coke to rooibos tea which also might be good for your liver (http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/52/52_461.pdf).

Hi Henry, yeah I took Milk Thistle every day since around July 2014, along with other supplements like a multi, r-lipoic acid, NAC. Now I take Himalaya Liver Care too since the test. I usually drink water, green tea, and sometimes Coke Zero. Thanks for that suggestion, I might buy some, I did read that it could possibly increase liver enzymes in some people, so I don't want my doctor to rage at me haha.

 

[jonas]

Hi Henry, yeah I took Milk Thistle every day since around July 2014, along with other supplements like a multi, r-lipoic acid, NAC. Now I take Himalaya Liver Care too since the test. I usually drink water, green tea, and sometimes Coke Zero. Thanks for that suggestion, I might buy some, I did read that it could possibly increase liver enzymes in some people, so I don't want my doctor to rage at me haha.

Out of curiosity Steve, does your doctor know that you supplement with Kava, and if so, did he have an opinion on the matter? Did he have any advice for you upon seeing the high liver enzyme activity in your results?

 

[Steve T]

Out of curiosity Steve, does your doctor know that you supplement with Kava, and if so, did he have an opinion on the matter? Did he have any advice for you upon seeing the high liver enzyme activity in your results?

Yeah my psychiatrist has known. She never liked kava and kept saying I was "self-medicating" by using it. So when the LFT came back she said she was "positive" it was from the kava and not anything else, and it would be considered substance abuse if I kept drinking it after that point. I'm seeing my primary care physician next week though to talk about the test. I took a second LFT today so that will give some much needed info.

I have brought kava up to doctors before and they've never even heard of it usually. I imagine if you brought it up to your doctor they would not be happy about it if they knew what kava is, lol.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Do you remember what kind/bra

I imagine if you brought it up to your doctor they would not be happy about it if they knew what kava is, lol.

In NZ many doctors are familiar with kava and from my (limited) experience, they do not seem to see it as anything harmful. One Kiwi-Chinese doctor I spoke with was generally against ALL mind-altering substances and while she thought kava was not harmful to its users bodies, it could "make bad thing to their minds in the long term". She was one of those people that believed a good life would be one not spiced up by anything stronger than caffeine-free tea.

 

[ApéroNoble]

I have brought kava up to doctors before and they've never even heard of it usually.

That's fairly typical in the US. My neighbor is an MD, we have had civilized discussion & debate about natural alternatives. He thinks many natural alternatives are gibberish or at the most not very effective. The thing is there're thousands of natural compositions which help in a verity of ways. The only thing most doctors look at are those compounds which have studies on them. That's just the way it is. If a substance doesn't have significant studies; most of which are on patentable drugs, many don't even consider it.

The sad thing is many natural remedies most likely will never have these kind of studies on them, therefore if it's not proven by studies it doesn't work. Or does it?

 

[Pink]

^^ I wouldn't be bothered about natural supplements ant what not,because 99% of them are not more then placebo,that's why supplement/herbal business in general is largest after pharmaceuticals in money generating/profits.Since its million times cheaper to buy bulk powder and produce vitamin caps then invest millions into single study of a plant/chemical to patent it as a drug.

This said we all know kava kava isnt just another vitamin c or some herbal tincture,because it does have immediate effects on body and mind.

As for Mds not knowing what it is is very natural,given that plant only grows in certain parts of the world,and its usage mostly remained ceremonial,why anyone would expect to hear different answer.like mentioned above its hard to pinpoint what is being affected when kava is consumed,sorta like weed,its already being legalized in many US states and abroad,but its certain principle of how it effects brain is still little known,even thou there are already millions poured into studies.

 

[ApéroNoble]

I have the sneaky suspicion Mds know full well about these types of nutritional supplements, they simply won't take the time to understand them or prescribe them. The next time you ask your Dr. about that Noni juice and they say they've never heard of it, look for a slight smile on their face. Would you want to spend 15 min. with a patient discussing something you may know less about than the patient?

 

[Steve T]

So 10 days after abstaining from kava my LFT is normal. The exact numbers are AST: 43 / ALT: 47. This means a few things if anyone is interested:

1) Properly grown, fresh noble kava can increase liver enzymes such as ALT to 1.5-2x the normal if you drink 5-8tbsp/day like I did, but it depends on the person.
2) It can have this effect on your liver regardless of your age, health, eating habits, weight, supplements, exercise. I'm 31, eat healthy, work out, normal weight, take Milk Thistle and other liver supplements, don't drink alcohol at all, no Tylenol, and so forth.
3) It isn't permanent liver damage of any huge significance, at least in my case. If my results went back to normal after 10 days of abstaining then I probably didn't have fatty liver or anything.
4) You can still feel it though. Even if kava doesn't cause long-term damage (it may or may not), you will still experience fatigue and general signs of liver stress. This is for people who have the same genetics or whatever conditional factors that I have. So drinking kava might not be worth it for these people, even if you ignore your LFTs.
5) For many people they won't feel any of these effects, or have any liver issues.

So I'm not out there to worry kava drinkers but I would just get your LFTs done periodically. Plenty of people like Deleted User01 got theirs done with no negative results at all.

 

[jonas]

I'm going to go in for one of these by April at the latest (hopefully) as I will be able to afford it for the first time in forever. I'm very curious about my resu

So 10 days after abstaining from kava my LFT is normal. I wasn't shown the exact numbers. This means a few things if anyone is interested:

1) Properly grown, fresh noble kava can increase liver enzymes such as ALT to 1.5-2x the normal if you drink 5-8tbsp/day like I did, but it depends on the person.
2) It can have this effect on your liver regardless of your age, health, eating habits, weight, supplements, exercise. I'm 31, eat healthy, work out, normal weight, take Milk Thistle and other liver supplements, don't drink alcohol at all, no Tylenol, and so forth.
3) It isn't permanent liver damage of any huge significance, at least in my case. If my results went back to normal after 10 days of abstaining then I probably didn't have fatty liver or anything.
4) You can still feel it though. Even if kava doesn't cause long-term damage (it may or may not), you will still experience fatigue and general signs of liver stress. This is for people who have the same genetics or whatever conditional factors that I have. So drinking kava might not be worth it for these people, even if you ignore your LFTs.
5) For many people they won't feel any of these effects, or have any liver issues.

So I'm not out there to worry kava drinkers but I would just get your LFTs done periodically. Plenty of people like Deleted User01 got theirs done with no negative results at all.

Steve, this is a long shot but I was curious if you were American and if so, if you had any ideas on how to get a LFT? I'm in the USA and I have no insurance, but I don't imagine most insurance would foot the bill for a preventative test anyway. But I maybe finally be able to afford this sort of a test in a month or two and I think it would be important to get done. Do you have any advice on where exactly one goes to get such a test done? Is it a primary care physician, or a third party testing lab? Also, any ideas on price? No worries if you can't help me. I appreciate your continued sharing of your results; I think it's important at least for our little community.

 

[ApéroNoble]

I'm going to go in for one of these by April at the latest (hopefully) as I will be able to afford it for the first time in forever. I'm very curious about my resu


Steve, this is a long shot but I was curious if you were American and if so, if you had any ideas on how to get a LFT? I'm in the USA and I have no insurance, but I don't imagine most insurance would foot the bill for a preventative test anyway. But I maybe finally be able to afford this sort of a test in a month or two and I think it would be important to get done. Do you have any advice on where exactly one goes to get such a test done? Is it a primary care physician, or a third party testing lab? Also, any ideas on price? No worries if you can't help me. I appreciate your continued sharing of your results; I think it's important at least for our little community.

Do you have a primary care physician? If so just tell them you want a LFT and they'll set one up for you.

 

[Kalm with Kava]

Found this online - seems legit and surprisingly enough they have quite a few locations - http://requestatest.com/hepatic-function-testing?gclid=CIv154zBhMMCFUmUfgodVjcA_g

 

[Steve T]

I'm going to go in for one of these by April at the latest (hopefully) as I will be able to afford it for the first time in forever. I'm very curious about my resu


Steve, this is a long shot but I was curious if you were American and if so, if you had any ideas on how to get a LFT? I'm in the USA and I have no insurance, but I don't imagine most insurance would foot the bill for a preventative test anyway. But I maybe finally be able to afford this sort of a test in a month or two and I think it would be important to get done. Do you have any advice on where exactly one goes to get such a test done? Is it a primary care physician, or a third party testing lab? Also, any ideas on price? No worries if you can't help me. I appreciate your continued sharing of your results; I think it's important at least for our little community.

I've asked doctors before because of alcohol, and later on kava, and they sort of brushed it off that my liver was fine. I have insurance though. My psychiatrist had to suspect kava was giving me issues before it became her idea to give a LFT. If you paid out of pocket for a LFT of just ALT and AST I can't imagine it would be that expensive. I wouldn't know how to go about doing that without a doctor's appointment though. I wouldn't worry too much though unless you're experiencing my symptoms. Good luck

 

[kavadude]

Steve, this is a long shot but I was curious if you were American and if so, if you had any ideas on how to get a LFT? I'm in the USA and I have no insurance, but I don't imagine most insurance would foot the bill for a preventative test anyway. But I maybe finally be able to afford this sort of a test in a month or two and I think it would be important to get done. Do you have any advice on where exactly one goes to get such a test done? Is it a primary care physician, or a third party testing lab? Also, any ideas on price? No worries if you can't help me. I appreciate your continued sharing of your results; I think it's important at least for our little community.

You can get a doctor to request one and it would likely be covered under insurance. If not, you can order them online. I used directlabs.com, I think it was around $150 for a rather comprehensive panel and vitamin D as well, just liver would probably be under $100. They contract with doctors and local blood places to handle all the paperwork crap, so you just print out a form and take it to a local bloodwork place and get the results online later.

edit: I just checked on their liver profile and it's $36. Small price to pay for peace of mind IMO.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

I am always amazed to read stories of people living in the richest country in the world who cannot get simple medical check ups without paying half of their weekly wages and who aren't covered by some sort of decent health insurance scheme either because because it is ridiculously expensive for them or ridiculously expensive for their employers. And to those who are ideologically opposed to some basic universal healthcare because of fears that it would mean high taxes or slavery: I used to live in one Asian country where taxes on labour and businesses were almost non-existent and yet basic health care was good, almost free and available to all regardless of their employment status. As the say, the opposite of what America does