Fijians eating with kava

[Edward]

I had an interesting conversation with a Fijian man the other day. He told me the old groggers he knows all eat as much as they can before and during a kava session. I asked why and he said so that they could drink more for longer. I'm not sure I see the point of that? I'd rather drink less on an empty stomach for less time and then have a nice sleep! That's the way I've always read about it and done it myself. Anyone Fijian here do the same or know about this?

 

[recentreturn]

I am NOT Fijian, but I was taught to drink kava by someone who had lived there. The beverage was introduced to me as first and foremost a social activity: conversation, card playing, music etc. in a group setting. It makes sense that someone wouldn't want to get so doped they lose motivation to be social, get nauseated, or have to sit out too many communal rounds when their goal is simply to socialize. I believe it is for the same reason that they tend not to mix their kava very strong (I was told a little light, but not much, should make it through when you pour it from the bilo). As an American, I do the same with alcohol: eat a lot so I don't get drunk. Plus, I've seen it said that in Fiji, kava is often drunk all night long.

 

[Alia]

I'd rather drink less on an empty stomach for less time and then have a nice sleep!

Totally agree with you.
In pre-western-contact Hawai'i it was-- end of day, before dinner, talk story with family before food kine.

 

[kastom_lif]

before dinner, talk story with family before food kine.

Glad to know that kava culture in modern times still mostly follows the old ways. Hang out with friends, maybe small kine pupus for cut the taste, den grinds later once da 'awa pau.

 

[Edward]

I suppose that is a big difference between traditional use and modern use. The rest of the world is full of crazy anxious, addicted and otherwise damaged people drinking kava on their own to feel better.

 

[Jacob Bula]

I suppose that is a big difference between traditional use and modern use. The rest of the world is full of crazy anxious, addicted and otherwise damaged people drinking kava on their own to feel better.

I quote Terence McKenna a lot. He once stated, "Culture is not your friend". There are positive aspects to cultural practices, but it often serves as a method to control large groups of people and to devalue individual beliefs while eliminating the need to ask "why". "Why do we drink kava this way?, Because that's the way we have done it for thousands of years. That's just how it is..."

In summary, my opinion is that kava should be enjoyed whenever and however it is most beneficial for the individual after they have self experimented with various methods. As you stated our set and setting is vastly different than people living in Vanuatu. Individual practices should be fine tuned while still respecting and honoring the traditional use.

 

[Alia]

I quote Terence McKenna a lot. He once stated, "Culture is not your friend". There are positive aspects to cultural practices, but it often serves as a method to control large groups of people and to devalue individual beliefs while eliminating the need to ask "why". "Why do we drink kava this way?, Because that's the way we have done it for thousands of years. That's just how it is..."

In summary, my opinion is that kava should be enjoyed whenever and however it is most beneficial for the individual after they have self experimented with various methods. As you stated our set and setting is vastly different than people living in Vanuatu. Individual practices should be fine tuned while still respecting and honoring the traditional use.

Your quote from Dr. McKenna is right on the mark. To clarify my comment: much of the pre-western contact Hawaiian culture was great but some of it was dark and wicked by today standards. The tradition of 'awa drinking I described in my comment above was more the way the maka'ainana or commoners, farmers, fisherman would drink an end of the day beverage with family, friends and then have dinner. No all night drinking. That contrasts dramatically with Ali'i and Kahuna. So my personal choice was to adopt the commoner practice, I fell in to it naturally.

 

[Ultra Sunrise]

I personally think it's great that Kava has been grown in a lot of island communities because there's a heterogenous mix of traditions. Whereas Fijian drinking is largely lighter strength and more social, isn't Vanautu drinking stronger and more meditative in nature? Then you can kind of see the differents takes, and find what fits for you personally.

 

[Edward]

I personally think it's great that Kava has been grown in a lot of island communities because there's a heterogenous mix of traditions. Whereas Fijian drinking is largely lighter strength and more social, isn't Vanautu drinking stronger and more meditative in nature? Then you can kind of see the differents takes, and find what fits for you personally.

There have been quite a few discussions on kava routines/rituals before and I suppose a lot depends on what you want from it. Personally I like that full body numbness you can get from a good heavy kava. To be honest I don't feel particularly social when I'm in my peak state, in fact my wife moving around, talking to the cats or other outside stimuli can be quite unwelcome in a way that's difficult to describe, it just feels quite incongruous to my relaxed state.

 

[Jacob Bula]

There have been quite a few discussions on kava routines/rituals before and I suppose a lot depends on what you want from it. Personally I like that full body numbness you can get from a good heavy kava. To be honest I don't feel particularly social when I'm in my peak state, in fact my wife moving around, talking to the cats or other outside stimuli can be quite unwelcome in a way that's difficult to describe, it just feels quite incongruous to my relaxed state.

Wait, aren't the cats drinking kava too?

 

[Edward]

Wait, aren't the cats drinking kava too?

Yes sorry, I didn't make that clear, it's ONLY my cats that drink kava. All over the UK we have the most relaxed pets in the world.

 

[Zaphod]

Yes sorry, I didn't make that clear, it's ONLY my cats that drink kava. All over the UK we have the most relaxed pets in the world.

My dog has purloined my kava more than once.....I walked away once from an open cup sitting on the ground in my back yard and she slurped down half of it. Still didn't stop me from drinking the other half.

 

[AlexisReal]

I personally think it's great that Kava has been grown in a lot of island communities because there's a heterogenous mix of traditions. Whereas Fijian drinking is largely lighter strength and more social, isn't Vanautu drinking stronger and more meditative in nature? Then you can kind of see the differents takes, and find what fits for you personally.

Haha, this posy just brought an image to my mind of a Vanuatan drinker, recincarnated as a Fijian, and feeling largely unsatisfied with the ritual of eating, talking and drinking light shells all day, never really "getting" kava.

 

[AlexisReal]

There have been quite a few discussions on kava routines/rituals before and I suppose a lot depends on what you want from it. Personally I like that full body numbness you can get from a good heavy kava. To be honest I don't feel particularly social when I'm in my peak state, in fact my wife moving around, talking to the cats or other outside stimuli can be quite unwelcome in a way that's difficult to describe, it just feels quite incongruous to my relaxed state.

Kava can also be amazingly useful with physical injuries, pain, and mobiltity issues.

It does not techinacally mask pain like a painkiller completely blocking pain from the consciousness, or vice versa. Pain has it's purpose and we would get nowhere in this world without it.

But kava makes the pain more consciously bearable in event of an injury for example.

It's amazing how much unexpected comfort Kava can bring at times.

 

[kastom_lif]

Your quote from Dr. McKenna is right on the mark. To clarify my comment: much of the pre-western contact Hawaiian culture was great but some of it was dark and wicked by today standards. The tradition of 'awa drinking I described in my comment above was more the way the maka'ainana or commoners, farmers, fisherman would drink an end of the day beverage with family, friends and then have dinner. No all night drinking. That contrasts dramatically with Ali'i and Kahuna. So my personal choice was to adopt the commoner practice, I fell in to it naturally.

I heard that some kava cultivars were forbidden to commoners back in the old days. Specifically, mo'i was only for ali'i and kahuna... maybe because of how heady it was.

Do you know any details about 'awa culture during the days of 'ai kapu? I'm curious if there were other 'awa restrictions back then.

 

[Alia]

I heard that some kava cultivars were forbidden to commoners back in the old days. Specifically, mo'i was only for ali'i and kahuna... maybe because of how heady it was.

Do you know any details about 'awa culture during the days of 'ai kapu? I'm curious if there were other 'awa restrictions back then.

Oh gosh yes. The Mo'i restriction is totally true. Somewhere I have a directive that says once enough was being grown it was open to all.
It would require a bit more research to write, here, more facts in what you ask. It's in my head but have to verify.
As to Post-Contact however--
There's the well known 1820 directive by Queen Ka'ahumanu: "the planting of 'awa is prohibited. Neither chiefs nor commoners are to drink 'awa."
There's what Mark Twain said in 1866: "...but for the use of this root the destruction of the people in former times by certain imported diseases would have been far greater than it was...but all are not willing to allow to the 'awa the virtues claimed for it."
And Isabella Bird wrote (about the Queen's anti-'awa Law) "No law in the islands is so grossly violated."

 

[Zaphod]

And Isabella Bird wrote (about the Queen's anti-'awa Law) "No law in the islands is so grossly violated."

Could probably say the same for cannabis today, or alcohol during prohibition....

 

[Jacob Bula]

Could probably say the same for cannabis today, or alcohol during prohibition....

The war on consciousness persists.