Front Page of the Vanuatu Daily Post - The End of Kava Exports?

[The Kap'n]

Koniak has not been deemed "noble" and maybe never would be, but anecdotally it has been safely enjoyed in PNG for quite some time. For those that are interested, I'm currently looking at an HPLC test of six samples of Koniak that show a chemotype 254631 with 5 and 4 being within .5 grams per 100 grams. Total kavalactone percentage ranges between 7.9 and 11. We do not see Koniak as a daily drinking kava.

@Gourmet Hawaiian Kava - can you confirm that this does/doesn't fall into the tuday group?

(I promise I'm not trying to stir anything up here. I just want an official answer based solely on the chemotype. We want to be as thorough as possible. I know many people love koniak from BKH, but we need to attach caution to its appropriate places)

 

[HeadHodge]

I say ban Tudie so we can stop talking about it. And ban K@, and ban Phenibut, and don't forget Kanna, and ...........

And don't forget to ban anything that is high-carb while your at it!!

 

[ApéroNoble]

(I promise I'm not trying to stir anything up here. I just want an official answer based solely on the chemotype. We want to be as thorough as possible. I know many people love koniak from BKH, but we need to attach caution to its appropriate places)

As far as I can tell this is the premier site on kava. Some forums you will notice perhaps lose integrity upon becoming "too large". I admire Kapm and the others I am getting to know here on their dedication to always seeking truth regardless of the need to feel popular.

 

[Deleted User01]

Honestly people. If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then guess what? It is a duck. I don't need Lebot or anyone else telling me if it is or not. I had my daytime Kava yesterday and I finished it off with 2 shells of a Koniak Blend, not even 100 percent Koniak. I feel it today and I don't care. I may do a total of 3 cups of it the whole week. I needed something heavy yesterday and I got it. It's very heavy medicine and you should treat it as such.

Judd, just put a sticker on it saying "We don't consider it a daily drinking Kava" and let that be a warning to the Newbies. I assume that is what this is all about since they have a penchant for buying the strongest Kava that money can buy (and who can blame them). After a few days of wandering around town aimlessly and in a daze, they will figure it out (just like everyone else here did). Or ..... they will buy more.

End of Rant.

 

[HeadHodge]

Concerning the chemotype and how to tell if it is a tuday kava, in Lebot's research with Levesque, they found that chemotypes are genetically controlled and therefore constitute a genetic fingerprint for each cultivar. A example of tuday chemotype is 521634, 526341, kava with this chemotype have distinct physiological effects that are different from other chemotypes. It is these kava's that are rarely consumed.

Thanks for the info.

So would you think it unreasonable to demand that Kava products prominently display their chemotype on it's packaging, instead of banning it or relying on the consumer to perform an acetone test on it? Something similar to the nutrition labels you see on most all food products in the U.S.

I'm not understanding the particulars yet, but I do believe their is a certificate system out there, to get a third part to verify that the Kava in the package is in fact the chemotype listed on the package. I would think a serious, responsible grower/supplier would be able to swing the cost of certification. That would lend credence to the quality of the product and also indicate the quality of the supplier.

As a consumer that would be a tremendous aid to me to decide which Kava's I want to buy. It would not only help identify a tuday Kava but also provide an indication of the effects you might expect to get from the Kava.

 

[Deleted User01]

Chemotypes are beyond most and even some of us here don't pay attention to that. You need something more blunt like: "Fire Baddddddd" . "Wheel gooodddd". Wait a minute, I got a great idea. Why don't we just call the FDA and put them in charge. Truth in Labeling and all that .. Heck, if they are watching this thread then they are already 2 shakes of a lambies tail from doing it. Quack, Quack, Quack, Quack, Quack ........ I'll betcha Judd sees a spike in Koniak sales everytime we beat this horse to death. I'm not blaming him, he warned us back in the Old Forum when he first released it. Heh, heh, heh, and we lined up for it (including me).

 

[Deleted User01]

lol. I was just remembering the old forum. I was remembering a post by KrunkedOut where he said something like, "Man, did anyone notice the effect the next day after drinking the K word." I could feel it in his posts and I knew exactly what he was talking about. I also remember zigzagging around the driveway looking for the paper at 5:00 in the morning. Live and learn.

 

[HeadHodge]

Thanks for the info.

So would you think it unreasonable to demand that Kava products prominently display their chemotype on it's packaging, instead of banning it or relying on the consumer to perform an acetone test on it? Something similar to the nutrition labels you see on most all food products in the U.S.

I'm not understanding the particulars yet, but I do believe their is a certificate system out there, to get a third part to verify that the Kava in the package is in fact the chemotype listed on the package. I would think a serious, responsible grower/supplier would be able to swing the cost of certification. That would lend credence to the quality of the product and also indicate the quality of the supplier.

As a consumer that would be a tremendous aid to me to decide which Kava's I want to buy. It would not only help identify a tuday Kava but also provide an indication of the effects you might expect to get from the Kava.

To further elaborate on my thought.....

I'm a self-described free-market capitalist. I believe in free trade provided there is enough information to make an intelligent choice. If the information is there to see that a Kava is a tuday and the consumer base collectively decides that tuday's are bad, then the consumer will refuse to buy it which in turn will result in a "de facto" ban of tuday's.

I'm honestly worried with all the talk of "banning" something. Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true. The ban wouldn't just stop at Tuday. The decision to ban something would be delegated to some government idiot who will decide for you what is good for you. So then what happens? This government moron decides that the only Kava's that are good for you are something like Borogu and Solomon (for example). Or someone with a ton of money lobbies the government moron to persuade him that only Waka and Stone (for example again) should be sold (typical example of crony capitalism where this lobbyist conveniently grows and sells only Waka and Stone). Or even worst case scenario, the government moron decides that it's too complicated to figure out, so all Kava gets banned.

 

[The Kap'n]

Here's the thing. When we allow these kavas which contain cytotoxic substances to be sold and even with a warning label we're still not protecting the image of kava as a whole. People with far more knowledge, and consequently more PHDs than I have been reporting the dangerous effects of tuday kavas. To ignore their warning, and roll the dice will most certainly end in a bad time for all of us.

 

[HeadHodge]

....Wait a minute, I got a great idea. Why don't we just call the FDA and put them in charge....

I'm definitely not thinking along those lines. I'm thinking more of industry self-regulation.

 

[ApéroNoble]

"worst case scenario, the government moron decides that it's too complicated to figure out, so all Kava gets banned. "

LOL

 

[brett123]

Here's the thing. When we allow these kavas which contain cytotoxic substances to be sold and even with a warning label we're still not protecting the image of kava as a whole. People with far more knowledge, and consequently more PHDs than I have been reporting the dangerous effects of tuday kavas. To ignore their warning, and roll the dice will most certainly end in a bad time for all of us.

looks like id better throw my koniak in the bin then

 

[The Kap'n]

I'm definitely not thinking along those lines. I'm thinking more of industry self-regulation.

Absolutely. 100% agree. This problem can be axed at the vendor level.

 

[The Kap'n]

looks like id better throw my koniak in the bin then

I think you're alright for now. It's generally people who post here who are the most conscious of the roll we play in the outlook on kava overall. By all means finish your kava, but I'd recommend a different type.

What I really hate is that it's focused on Bula's Koniak. Judd offers an awesome array of excellent kavas, and I hate to step on his toes, because honestly we are full supporters of Bula Kava House, also of Noble Kava bar. I'd like to hear Judd's side of this. I mean what's good is good, or bad is bad, no matter what justification we put under either we're still left with the same scientific outcome. It's either good, or bad.

 

[HeadHodge]

looks like id better throw my koniak in the bin then

Throw it in the HeadHodge bin, and I'll personally ensure that it gets disposed of properly!!

 

[Bula Kava House]

Damn, people! You know there are other vendors who sell non-noble kavas, right? Can we shift focus for a little while? Lol. Look, I take this seriously. If flavokawains cause damage I'm just waiting for someone to say how much is acceptable (It would be nice if that person didn't have a direct financial interest in selling kava), like a specific number or ratio, because all kava has flavokawains in them. When that number is presented all suppliers should test all the kava they sell. I'll even test our six noble varieties for the specific compounds. I'm not talking about just a chemotype test to see if a particular kava is noble.

The funny thing is, all this hooplah is probably bringing more mainstream attention to the possibility that kava is dangerous, which is a notion that had been losing steam. As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, there still haven't been cases of liver problems with traditionally prepared and consumed kava of any variety when using the root system only.

 

[brett123]

im confused and isint it like saying low tar cigarette is healthier both poison high or low

1kg of koniak will help my confusion im sure
seriously im scared of the cytotoxic substances sounds nasty i was under the impression the only bad kava was the plant leaf and roots were ok

 

[TidyMinion]

Don't forget that we, as kava consumers, hold a big place in this debate also as we can vote with our money. While it's interesting and fun to try out these lesser known kavas we may also be, however inadvertently, boosting the bad rep of good kava and the good rep of bad vendors. Hope that makes sense. I just think we should especially champion those vendors that regularly contribute to the forums here and are so open with their information - facts and/or educated opinions. BKH, GHK, Paradise...yeh maybe their prices are a few dollars more than others but it's totally worth it when you think about the amount of this product we regularly put into our bodies. Let's also applaud them for making their kava distributing business about kava alone and not selling it alongside other products that may, by association, also harm kava's rep in the world.

 

[HeadHodge]

im confused and isint it like saying low tar cigarette is healthier both poison high or low

1kg of koniak will help my confusion im sure
seriously im scared of the cytotoxic substances sounds nasty i was under the impression the only bad kava was the plant leaf and roots were ok

I think you're directly speaking to (and making) Judd's point about Kava safety perceptions.

 

[The Kap'n]

I think you're directly speaking to (and making) Judd's point about Kava safety perceptions.

It looks like our new task is getting a wiki going about safety.