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Insomnia tips?

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krunkedout

Kava Lover
So, first day of class today of my last semester of undergrad and I slept 0 hours the night before. Been going on and off like this for nearly a year. My doctor put me on Trazodone but it just made me feel really tense and restless all night (still no sleep), tried Ambien, worked for the first 3 times or so and then stopped working. Any kava strains that you guys recommend for some severe sleep onset insomnia? I was also thinking about trying CBD oil because I've heard that helps, so if anyone has tried that and can provide some good info that would also be great!
 
N

Noname

Nene from ghk is good for sleep according to reviews. What type of diet do you have? Do you drink coffee? Coffee is one of the most underestimated things out there.
 

krunkedout

Kava Lover
Nene from ghk is good for sleep according to reviews. What type of diet do you have? Do you drink coffee? Coffee is one of the most underestimated things out there.
I switched from coffee to black tea. As far as diet goes, it's not great lol, typical broke college student diet except I try to eat a lot of grains like flax seed and quinoa.
 
N

Noname

Grains are a super food that are actually bad for you. Black tea still has caffeine. Using phone too close to bed time can also cause insomnia. It helps to just let your self fall asleep. Don't get frustrated and try to force yourself to sleep. Just let it happen
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
I'd suggest Kava Supreme...or a mixture of Kava Supreme and a balanced waka. There's also Isa available again, if you're willing to risk the chance of feeling nauseous or fuzzy and dull the next. I recently went through a high anxiety/insomnia period and it was powerful enough to make kava no longer work through the entirety of the night, like it usually would. Kava did still work for the onset of sleep though and getting an initial chunk of sleep, but when I woke up after a few hours, I'd have to have another shell and attempt to meditate myself back to sleep. At it's worst, the difference between mixing in a high DHM kava, like Supreme (or Isa), and not mixing it in was obvious...thankfully Kava Supreme has 1-2 day shipping on Prime. I found it best to mix the high DHM kava with another kava, because large doses high DHM kava can occasionally backfire and create a strange sedated yet agitated sleep state.

I was also prescribed Trazodone, but refused to take it. However, I did have the longest straight hours of sleeping in a long time from taking 1.5mg of Ativan one night. It didn't feel like I had even taken anything, but I slept for 8 hours without even waking up to pee like I usually would.
 
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violet

Do all things with love
It's been a long time since I've been able to use kava as a sleep inducer. I have yet to try the Supreme or Isa but I just got down to my undrinkable batches so might order one the next go-round.

Whatever is in black tea is far more stimulating for me than coffee, and lasts a lot longer too. Perhaps you may try switching to green tea or stopping tea altogether.

The only kavas that could put me down at night probably contained tudei. I drank them easily in the daytime and just increased the evening session to sleep at night. I find most kavas now very stimulating; Nene is one of the most stimulating of them all for me, gives me some serious ants-in-the-pants lol (don't let that stop you from trying I am a little hard-headed methinks). For sleep most find drinking kava a period of hours before bedtime is best. You can always save a shell to top off with a nite cap if it helps. That's how my night sessions worked best for me.

A lot of folks that medicate with cannabis find CBD stimulating, and will use it in the morning then alternate with a sedating THC strain at night. I've found there's a sweet spot with dosing CBD. For me it's great for taking the edge off a panic attack or similar type state. It helps with focus, which also helps with morning wakefulness if needed. Too much and it leaves me feeling "out there." I've tried taking it at night and while it helped quiet my mind it made me more wakeful. There's a lot of research on the endocannabinoid system; if nothing else it could have a balancing effect if needed.

Trazadone works for many but also seems to have a reputation of only working for a little while. I experienced a similar frustration as yours with Ambien, it was useful only about once every 4-5 times.

If you aren't averse to prescription meds, there's a couple things that might be helpful. (I personally feel sometimes it's more important to counter the detrimental effects of sleep loss with a band aid in order to prevent greater damage, especially when needing to function for school or work.)

Trying a wakefulness promoting drug in the mornings like provigil/nuvigil can make one more sleepy in the evenings. (This hasn't helped my insomnia but they do make functioning through the fogginess of fatigue a lot easier!)

If your problem is only getting to sleep: for promoting sleep what has helped me the most is Restoril (temazepam). It's a benzo with a half-life of just minutes. (For restoring sleep in any manner you need to try and have a bit of routine and regular bedtime!!!) When using it I will take it around the same time every night. Anywhere from 3-6 weeks into it my body figures out what to do and I start getting sleepy without it. I can discontinue with zero issues (do research if considering, I have physiological issues at the root of my insomnia that may also affect how I metabolize stuff). The important thing with this is the routine and regular time!

If you find an Rx or supplement that promotes sleep for you, it could be a good idea to combine it with other therapies like progressive relaxation, binaural beats, or something similar you can do naturally unaided (progressive relaxation alone got me to sleep every night for years when younger). If you can achieve sleep with an inducer and are using a complement (like progressive relaxation, etc) you can train your body to associate sleep with the complement while you are inducing regulation with a pharm/supp. The goal would be that the body would also begin to recognize the complement as the signal to sleep, reducing or eliminating the need for a med or supp. It isn't perfect but can be helpful when nothing else works and can be helpful for nurturing mind-body awareness.

For issues of early awakening or staying asleep, some may find low dose amitriptyline (10 mg) helpful (like temazepam it is cheap and old but also comes with side effects that should be known beforehand). Early awakening, especially around 3 am, can point to overworked adrenals. Even if you cannot sleep a wink, lying in a dark room at night and allowing your body to relax will still have beneficial effects on the adrenals and hormones in the body.

Plant melatonin is much more bioavailable than other sources, chinese skullcap root and black cherry juice are good sources.

Acupuncture can be very, very helpful, not just for sleep but for helping the body work better on every level, and altogether. If you have insurance that covers it could be worth looking into. There are often community acupuncture places where treatments are very affordable and also check Groupon, lots of great acupuncture deals usually there!

If your vitamin D3 is low (most are) you will not able to make proper amounts of neurotransmitters and hormones, and you will have much lower immunity. Take D3 early in the day as it can be stimulating and always take it with K2!!!

Magnesium is needed for hundreds of reactions in the body and being depleted can greatly interfere with sleep. Most people are deficient. Best way to get it is with daily Epsom salt baths or mag chloride oil rubbed onto skin. As an oral supp use a chelated form for absorption like mag glycinate and take small doses spread throughout the day (Mg is also a needed cofactor of D3).

As a student it might be difficult, but it's important to avoid the stimulating effects of computers, phones, TV's, etc, in the evenings. If you cannot help staying up you might try using blue light blocking glasses when the sun goes down (pineal gland that makes melatonin is sensitive to blue wavelengths). Unplug the Wi-Fi before you go to bed. Keep your cell phone and other electronics far from your head while sleeping, in another room is best. If you need your phone close keep it away from your body (esp. head) and put in airplane mode if possible.

Another thing that I found helpful was sleeping in a room with a skylight. My sleep/wake cycles got much better, excluding the few nights my room was filled with the light of the full moon!

Congrats, you are so close to graduating @krunkedout . I'm sure it's been a lot of work, do what you must to balance your health and finish your studies for this term if it's sensible. Nutrition is massive and first and easiest thing to be mindful of (ample proteins and good fats needed to make hormones and rebuild body every night!) Be sure to make up for any compromises to yourself once you're done with finals. Your health is too important to neglect in the long run, especially as an adult.
 

kastom_lif

Kava Lover
Get some cardio during the day. Wear yourself out... being tired really seems to help me fall asleep.

And congrats on your upcoming graduation!
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Ok, this will sound a bit odd but try masturbating (or having sex) and then immediately after you have finished get comfortable and try to sleep.
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
So, first day of class today of my last semester of undergrad and I slept 0 hours the night before. Been going on and off like this for nearly a year. My doctor put me on Trazodone but it just made me feel really tense and restless all night (still no sleep), tried Ambien, worked for the first 3 times or so and then stopped working. Any kava strains that you guys recommend for some severe sleep onset insomnia? I was also thinking about trying CBD oil because I've heard that helps, so if anyone has tried that and can provide some good info that would also be great!
Trazadone has a lot of issues. It builds tolerance, it's hard to find a dose that will put you to sleep/keep you asleep and not be drowsy in the morning and has some other uncommon side effects that could result in an embarrassing trip to the ER if you're a guy (low flow priapism). Personally, it's not something that I would use. I would second the recommendation for kava Supreme. Some batches are more sedating than others but it's much more likely to help sleep than hurt it.

It's been a long time since I've been able to use kava as a sleep inducer. I have yet to try the Supreme or Isa but I just got down to my undrinkable batches so might order one the next go-round.

The only kavas that could put me down at night probably contained tudei. I drank them easily in the daytime and just increased the evening session to sleep at night. I find most kavas now very stimulating; Nene is one of the most stimulating of them all for me, gives me some serious ants-in-the-pants lol (don't let that stop you from trying I am a little hard-headed methinks). For sleep most find drinking kava a period of hours before bedtime is best. You can always save a shell to top off with a nite cap if it helps. That's how my night sessions worked best for me.
How long has it been since you've been able to use kava as a sleep inducer? This has become a big problem for me, over the past 1-2 years, kava has become less and less of an effective sleep aid. At this point, I'm becoming convinced that it's weak/less mature plants being sold or (gasp!) the lack of tudei blended in that are causing the problem since attaining a truly "krunked" state has also been nearly impossible over the past year or so. Morning after effects have also become a non issue, most heavy kava, even drank before bed will usually not last through the night and into the next morning as they always did in the past.
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
At this point, I'm becoming convinced that it's weak/less mature plants being sold or (gasp!) the lack of tudei blended in that are causing the problem since attaining a truly "krunked" state has also been nearly impossible over the past year or so. Morning after effects have also become a non issue, most heavy kava, even drank before bed will usually not last through the night and into the next morning as they always did in the past.
Ah, the good old days when you could get some nice adulterated kavas lol :)
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
Oh yeah, I knew throwing out that possibility would catch some flak but I really do wonder sometimes. Either way, it is a serious concern.
 

NileKinnick

Kava Curious
However, I did have the longest straight hours of sleeping in a long time from taking 1.5mg of Ativan one night. It didn't feel like I had even taken anything, but I slept for 8 hours without even waking up to pee like I usually would.
I don't think this is safer than trazodone long term ;). Benzo dependency is nasty.
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
I don't think this is safer than trazodone long term ;). Benzo dependency is nasty.
w0rd. I'm VERY well aware. I don't normally consume benzos, but the extremeness off my situation required me to go against my own advice. In my case, it was definitely safer to use benzos over Trazodone since they are more widely used, understood and mostly just affect GABA. Where as Trazodone affects serotonin, which may or may not have worsened certain things I was going through. SSRI's and SNRI's can be a bit unpredictable, in that they can sometimes worsen the symptoms they're meant to be treating. ::happyshell::
 

NileKinnick

Kava Curious
If I suspect I'm going to have insomnia (catch it early enough), I'll take two Benadryl and the recommended dosage of valerian root capsules. I won't take Benadryl in the middle of a bout with insomnia if I have to wake up in 4 or 5 hours because I'll be more drowsy than if I just sleep for 2 hours and have a coffee or two.
 

NileKinnick

Kava Curious
w0rd. I'm VERY well aware. I don't normally consume benzos, but the extremeness off my situation required me to go against my own advice. In my case, it was definitely safer to use benzos over Trazodone since they are more widely used, understood and mostly just affect GABA. Where as Trazodone affects serotonin, which may or may not have worsened certain things I was going through. SSRI's and SNRI's can be a bit unpredictable, in that they can sometimes worsen the symptoms they're meant to be treating. ::happyshell::
Aye. I've only known a handful of people who've been prescribed trazodone and it was either ineffective or they loved it. Though they may not have told me if they had bad side effects.
 

violet

Do all things with love
How long has it been since you've been able to use kava as a sleep inducer? This has become a big problem for me, over the past 1-2 years, kava has become less and less of an effective sleep aid. At this point, I'm becoming convinced that it's weak/less mature plants being sold or (gasp!) the lack of tudei blended in that are causing the problem since attaining a truly "krunked" state has also been nearly impossible over the past year or so. Morning after effects have also become a non issue, most heavy kava, even drank before bed will usually not last through the night and into the next morning as they always did in the past.
It's been a few years since I've used kava as a sleep aid. But since day one I have noticed that as my needs change I often find another use or discover another layer of enjoyment that kava has been offering me all along. If you are only looking for kava sessions that hit you over the head with the force of a swinging 2x4, you probably won't get much out of kavas that are subtle yet more intricate and nuanced unless you are open to receiving that type of experience. Even then the set and setting needs to be just right and it could still take a pound or three of a "lighter" cultivar to actually get it if it comes at all. Kava itself can be most fickle when all variables remain the same.

I haven't had any issues with attaining proper "krunkedness" despite the the clean up of adulteration issues in the market. If it's OK to happen and it does than that's fine, but it's usually not something that comes easier chased. I find traditionally squeezed prep to hit the hardest, but for longer lasting effects I toss-and-wash. Beyond analgesia the physical effects are very noticeable to my chiropractor and others who do bodywork on me. All my bones and tissues move, glide, and give freely the next day. I feel a huge difference in stretching and ROM too. This doesn't happen with grog. The effects with eating straight powder are less intense for me but more beneficial.

To be totally fair to kava, even when I was using heavy tudei cultivars for inducing sleep they weren't effective every time, but definitely better than the ambien. I have neuro- and physiological issues that greatly impact my sleep cycle, among other things. Nearly every supp, pharm, and modality I tried was totally ineffective and kava was the most benign thing I found. Bonus that it benefited me in ways I hadn't expected.

Sleep is a complicated process in the body, and it depends on the rest of the body systems working together properly in order to happen the right way every night. When we get a little hiccup somewhere in our health we might not notice it, think it's anything important, perhaps disregard it or blame it on external influences. Eventually not addressing the tiny things will cause a much greater unbalance to the intricacies of the human body. By the time sleep becomes affected, there are many things that must usually be addressed and corrected before the body can correct sleep. The lost sleep compounds everything and makes additional issues.
 

Rick.Sanchez

Kava Enthusiast
Ozia's elevate CBD hemp oil is a great sleep aid IMO.

I like to take nene for sleep. Heavier kavas can leave me feeling a little tired the next morning, but I never have that issue with nene.
 

Kava o'puss

Kava Curious
Posted this elsewhere, but...

Stone (if credit card processing ever works again), Kava Supreme, Nangol Noble, Nambawan, Nene...

For years, I had trouble sleeping through the night. I attribute this mainly to a very stressful job and other usual life stresses. I had more trouble staying asleep than falling asleep. Sleep medication, even the ubiquitous OTC pills, in my opinion, causes a drowsy hangover, deprives one of quality REM sleep, and is not all that effective at facilitating uninterrupted sleep through the morning. In my experience, a myriad of herbal supplements, teas, etc. produced either no, or a negligible, effect on being able to sleep until morning. Due to inevitable side effects, I have no interest in long-term, frequent use of RX anti-anxiety meds to help with sleep . Tolerance, loss of effectiveness, physical dependence, etc. precludes this from being a viable long-term sleep solution. Having a few drinks, some wine, etc. at night may help one wind down and help one fall asleep, but one can expect to be, again, wide-awake after a few hours of alcohol induced sleep.

I found kava just searching the Internet for an herbal supplement that actually had an appreciable impact on restful sleep. Long term, for sleep, kava has worked markedly better than anything else I've tried. I have found kava to be very effective for sleeping longer, with little-to-no drowsiness/hangover effect in the a.m.

I drink kava only in the evening, a few hours before sleep. Unlike sleeping pills, IMO, for the purpose of enhanced sleep, kava sessions should begin well before bed time (3 hours, give or take). I normally enjoy kava in the evening and, by my normal bedtime, I can fall into a restful sleep.

If you just began trying kava and you felt just "a little more relaxed", you have not nearly experienced the full effects of kava; that's probable good news. It took me a few months to feel the full effects of kava. I tried pills, extracts, instants, and ultimately "real" ground root. IMO, there is nothing like ground root. I guess the delay in experiencing the full effects can be attributed to reverse tolerance (having kava build up in your system?) , learning how to properly and effectively prepare ground kava root, learning how much to take and the amount of time between shells, etc. But, the first time you feel the full effects, you will know it. The first time I fully felt kava, it was like "wow...this is what people were talking about!"

As far as mixing with your RX medication, I'm not a MD, and, unfortunately, your MD probably does not have much concrete,useful info or knowledge on this matter either. FWIW, I have seen someone use a moderate amount of kava concurrently with comparable medication with no obvious ill-effects. I'm assuming you may be better off using one and not both. Kava needs some tinkering before you learn how to make it relax you, help you sleep, help you feel better or get you a bit krunk, though.
 

avahZ

YAHWEH Shalom
There are a few of us that kava has a more stimulating effect. Kava = no sleep for me if I take it after five. I actually use it in the morning (in small amounts) with my coffee. I also use it to keep the middle age aches and muscle cramps at bay.

As for sleep I do use a low dose ambien every so often and phenibut on other nights. Phenibut can be addicting if you are not careful... I would only use it as a last resort. Please do your research before you even try it, if you do. My liver is made of steel (I get it tested twice a year) so I may be an oddball that abuses it and (so far), I am fine.
 
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