Instants losing 50% of KLs?

[Zaphod]

So on the recently posted Final Report - Scientific and Legal Assessment on Kava by @verticity there was an interesting statement on page 57:

"The sample of Mo’i with an FKB:K-ratio was not a root powder, but an instant kava powder ready for drinking. Due to the processing, some shifts in the kavalactone composition must be expected and can be observed. Instant powder preparation leads to losses in kavalactones by roughly 50%, whereas FKB remained unchanged."

For those of you who make, sell, and test instants is this statement true? I have really been unimpressed by instants so far, and maybe this is the reason.

 

[Edward]

They do maybe lose that many KL's but then you are consuming the rest of them. Remember that even with the best extraction method you are not getting all of the KL's out of ground root. I'm surprised you haven't had fun with instants. Try root of happiness instant and/or BKH Instant Green, the two best instants around right now.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I don't even know what that means, "losses of kavalactones."

People throw out most of their kavalactones. There is no negative kavalactones, only positive, only stuff you get rather than throw out. What I mean is, you can't lose what you never had.

Like Edward says, "Remember that even with the best extraction method you are not getting all of the KL's out of ground root."

Probably in our absolutely best case scenario we are getting maybe 30% of the kavalactones we buy, but usually more like 10 - 15%. We're lucky we get any at all.

And then, of course, there's the issue of availability. Just because it's in the grog and we chug it down doesn't mean it's available. The kavalactones are half the game, our receptors are the other half. Some folks can down enough heavy kava to drop a bull elephant with seemingly no effect.

I still think there's a much bigger gestalt to all of this involved and any kind of scientistic approach to getting ALL the kavalactones ALL at once for the biggest heaviest strongest mostestest (if we can just throw the most money at it or the most tricky science as if clever counts here) is not really what kava is about. Maybe it's not all about us seeking the kavalactones, maybe the kavalactones seek us?

 

[verticity]

I noticed that anomaly with the instant vs medium grind Moi. It is odd and not what I had expected because instant is made by just dehydrating fresh kava juice. Maybe some of the kavalactones are destroyed or evaporate when the fresh kava is heated to remove the water. The flavokavains are larger molecules, so maybe they have higher boiling points and don't evaporate off as much? Also, maybe some of the kavalactones don't get squeezed out of the roots into the liquid when fresh kava is made, or maybe they are squeezed out less efficiently than when the roots are dried and powdered. Or perhaps it's just the ratio of of FK to KL sqeezed out is different for some reason in fresh vs dry roots? The FKs really do not like water, so maybe they are extracted much less efficiently by kneading in water rather than sqeezing out the fresh juices, which would be saturated with KLs and more oily? But the report says FKB is unchanged, so that can't be right..

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Maybe instants are susceptible to losing KLs than dried powder? Having experienced many instants, I have found them to be either very potent or very weak. The potent batches seem to provide a better experience except they always lack the depth of heaviness that you can get from medium grind.

 

[Bula Kava House]

Vanuatu Instant Green is basically instant Nambawan. It also tends to be a couple percentage points higher in kavalactones than Nambawan that was processed and shipped at the same time. If this study is stating that all instant kavas are 50% lower in kavalactones than medium grind kava, that's not an accurate statement.

 

[Zaphod]

Vanuatu Instant Green is basically instant Nambawan. It also tends to be a couple percentage points higher in kavalactones than Nambawan that was processed and shipped at the same time. If this study is stating that all instant kavas are 50% lower in kavalactones than medium grind kava, that's not an accurate statement.

Good to know. As far as I can tell they did not back up the statement with anything so who knows where they got the information from. Then again the ratio to FK to KL was higher in that sample so it was curious.

 

[Zaphod]

Maybe instants are susceptible to losing KLs than dried powder? Having experienced many instants, I have found them to be either very potent or very weak. The potent batches seem to provide a better experience except they always lack the depth of heaviness that you can get from medium grind.

Interesting. The only ones I have tried were weak - and after buying it twice and feeling like I got the raw end of the deal based on price I gave up on them.

 

[Zaphod]

They do maybe lose that many KL's but then you are consuming the rest of them. Remember that even with the best extraction method you are not getting all of the KL's out of ground root. I'm surprised you haven't had fun with instants. Try root of happiness instant and/or BKH Instant Green, the two best instants around right now.

Well maybe - unless we lose certain KLs and not others in which case it would change the experience. I like the heavier KLs and so far Co2 exctacts, and instants feel much headier to me and short lived. If for some reason the instants lose the heavier KLs this might explain why they just are not my cup of tea...err kava.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Interesting. The only ones I have tried were weak - and after buying it twice and feeling like I got the raw end of the deal based on price I gave up on them.

I haven't used a lot of instants in the last year or so, just every now and then but there have been some super potent ones in the past. I remember buying large bags of Fire Island instant that gave an amazing kavain rush, repeatable after every "shell". I have had some that were a complete waste of money so each time a vendor released a new batch, I would buy a small amount and if it was good, stock up.

 

[Edward]

Well maybe - unless we lose certain KLs and not others in which case it would change the experience. I like the heavier KLs and so far Co2 exctacts, and instants feel much headier to me and short lived. If for some reason the instants lose the heavier KLs this might explain why they just are not my cup of tea...err kava.

With the exception of Instant Green all the best instants are heavy. Get some ROH or QKP and you'll see what I mean.