Kava not seem to be doing much anymore

[AZcat]

When I first started using Kava, the effect was very powerful and very noticeable right from the very first time I drank some, with Euphoria and a reduce in volume of my Tinnitus, but now I am not noticing the Euphoria ( maybe I am just more depressed than normal ) and its not having any effect on my Tinnitus. Anyone know why it would stop working ?

 

[Russell Caruso]

When I first started using Kava, the effect was very powerful and very noticeable right from the very first time I drank some, with Euphoria and a reduce in volume of my Tinnitus, but now I am not noticing the Euphoria ( maybe I am just more depressed than normal ) and its not having any effect on my Tinnitus. Anyone know why it would stop working ?

Have you switched Kava's at all? How long have you been taking it for and how? What kind do you normally use?

 

[AZcat]

Have you switched Kava's at all? How long have you been taking it for and how? What kind do you normally use?

I mostly use Kalm with Kava Micronized Borongoru and sometimes Pouni Ono. Its not a new batch, just more of the same stuff I already had. I have been using it since May 1st this year, every few days.

 

[AZcat]

I noticed some effect from some I drank tonight, but it took nearly an hour before I felt any Euphoria, when normally I feel that within 15 minutes.

 

[Russell Caruso]

Hmmm
I'm not sure, I notice that sometimes if I do it too many days in a row, the effects are definitely lessened until I take a break for a day or 2. But like you said you use it every few days..
If it's the same batch of Pouni Ono/Borongoru I reckon it's not a bad batch.
Although i'm sure you already are doing these things, just to cover all the bases: make sure you're drinking your Kava on an empty, or near empty stomach. That has a HUGE impact on what effects you'll get. I notice if I drink with any bit of food in my stomach, euphoria is lessened by like 75%, and the relaxation is lessened quite a bit. Also ensure you're staying hydrated. Before I drink my Kava I like to down a glass or 2 of water, just to sort of prepare my stomach for it, it should get things moving and help clear out the stomach so the Kava can absorb a bit quicker and better. After I drink my Kava I have some form of electrolytes to replenish, and the day after I replenish with some more electrolytes. I'm not sure why electrolytes are so important in the Kava experience, i'm aware it's a strong diuretic, but if i'm out of electrolyte supplements I notice Kava is hardly pleasant. I get real edgy, the effects are more agitating than soothing, it's really odd. Though, that very well could just be me. But it couldn't hurt to try and hydrate a bit more

Another thing is you could just try switching strains. One thing i've absolutely noticed is when I first try a new strain, my body reacts way more strongly to it than Kava i'm used to. I used Kava Supreme for a while, and I kind of stopped "feeling it" from that Kava, and as soon as I switched to Melo Melo the effects were much, much more pronounced. Now I tend to go back and forth between strains, I always have a few on hand. Right now my favorite is Melo Melo, but I still have some Supreme, and some Borogu. I've also got a few Kava capsules on hand.
You could try swapping strains if the lack of effects continue, I know that worked for me. But, everyone is different!
I'm sure others will chime in here as well. I wish you best of luck

 

[Edward]

I went through a stage like that quite a while ago. I broke out of it by upping my dose substantially on one or two days and then I found I could drop it back down and the effects were still there.

 

[Russell Caruso]

I went through a stage like that quite a while ago. I broke out of it by upping my dose substantially on one or two days and then I found I could drop it back down and the effects were still there.

I've noticed this as well,
sometimes reverse tolerance (if that's what it is) seems creeps up on you even if you've been using Kava for a while, upping your dose by a bit for a night or 2 seems to help that. Or taking it twice in one day, that's what helped me. Took some early afternoon, then my regular nightly Kava and the effects were MUCH more pronounced.
Hoping you find something that works for you It also might be worth looking into some Kava candy or concentrates, they're easier to dose throughout the day.

 

[Kavashua]

I've noticed this as well,
sometimes reverse tolerance (if that's what it is) seems creeps up on you even if you've been using Kava for a while, upping your dose by a bit for a night or 2 seems to help that. Or taking it twice in one day, that's what helped me.

That sounds more like “tolerance” and not so much “reverse tolerance”. I’ve noticed I’ve had to bump up my dosage too

 

[recentreturn]

I've noticed this as well,
sometimes reverse tolerance (if that's what it is) seems creeps up on you even if you've been using Kava for a while,

Hmm, that doesn't sound very reverse. That sounds like forward tolerance. I've been wondering for some time if there might be some modicum of quickly reversible tolerance to kava, in addition to the whole reverse tolerance thing. Others, but not all or even the majority, have expressed difficulty feeling effects when they drink grog a second time on the same day. The human body is complicated; but I am curious if maybe there is some degree of tolerance that happens with kava. I don't know anything, but I've wondered about if for quite some time; maybe a tolerance that goes away in 12 hours?
On the other hand, I've also wondered if the perception of a kind of "tolerance" could simply be because kava is so long acting that you actually never get back to baseline after a certain point; thus when you take a break and drop back to baseline, you feel it more.
Nevertheless, I think the discussions about switching cultivars etc, definately raise a question about whether there really might be such a thing as tolerance in kava. If we aren't scared to use the term, I think it is an interesting discussion worth having.
I've taken a few significant breaks from kava recently and when I drink it again, I definitely haven't noticed reverse tolerance coming back; if anything, I feel it more strongly.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Nevertheless, I think the discussions about switching cultivars etc, definately raise a question about whether there really might be such a thing as tolerance in kava. If we aren't scared to use the term, I think it is an interesting discussion worth having.
I've taken a few significant breaks from kava recently and when I drink it again, I definitely haven't noticed reverse tolerance coming back; if anything, I feel it more strongly.

I've begun to suspect the same but have been reluctant to bring the topic up since "reverse tolerance" seems to be brought up in every other thread now days and lack of tolerance to the effects of kava are so frequently touted. Early on I never noticed tolerance or reverse tolerance but back then I took short breaks regularly.

 

[Russell Caruso]

That sounds more like “tolerance” and not so much “reverse tolerance”. I’ve noticed I’ve had to bump up my dosage too

Well, it sounds like it, yeah.
But sometimes if you aren’t dosing enough continuously, the effects start to fade, for some people, at least. The reverse tolerance ‘’theory’’ is sort of that you have to have a steady build-up of kavalactones in your system to feel more effect, so upping the dose for a day or 2 might do the trick to get more effects from your regular dose. Though, we know for sure not everybody experiences RT. That’s basically where my thinking was going with that in terms of ‘’reverse’’ tolerance.
Some people get RT more than others, I never had it but I’ve had friends who 100% get it despite doing all the right things.
What I’m suggesting is maybe if she ups her dose for a day or 2, then goes back to her regular dose, it might replenish those effects from her regular dose. I’ve noticed that seems to happen with me, the more often I drink, the higher the dose, the less I have to have the next day to get the same effects. She also stated she drinks only every few days, which makes me think that RT very well may be the case? Kava is very, very odd. If there is a bit of forward tolerance I wouldn’t be surprised, but i’d doubt that’s the case with her. Definitely a conversation worth having!

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

I can easily see a situation in which someone tries a few teaspoons and gets nothing, then a few more, nothing, etc etc Then at 3 TBS they still feel nothing. But the next day at 4 TBS bingo, krunktown. But then the next time they try only 3 TBS they notice that now they feel effects. Even at 2 TBS, and possibly even less.

You don't really know if something is tolerance or reverse tolerance until you see the end game because that changes things. My scenario above is an example of RT (and a true one, as the tale is nought but mine own). But if it were tolerance, it would be more like, "...and then after 4 TBS stopped working, I had to go to 5, then 6, then 7, then etc." That's what tolerance looks like (or weaker kava that isn't beefed up with tudei or fentanyl or whatever) -- (or both)

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

But if it were tolerance, it would be more like, "...and then after 4 TBS stopped working, I had to go to 5, then 6, then 7, then etc." That's what tolerance looks like (or weaker kava that isn't beefed up with tudei or fentanyl or whatever) -- (or both)

Taking more to get an equivalent effect is certainly the usual definition of tolerance but the situation becomes more muddied in a substance that contains multiple chemical constituents in varied quantities that could effect the actions of each other based on those quantities and ratios. What I've noticed is that taking more never gets me the same level of effects I expect from past experiences so to me that indicates a weaker and lower quality product. On the other hand vendors will usually say that nothing has changed quality wise which suggests personal tolerance is at play.

I really do feel like RT is a term that is thrown around way too much. Having to raise and maintain chemical levels in the blood above a certain threshold and a reversing of tolerance are two different mechanisms. Is there evidence that this was ever an issue for island drinkers? How could kava, in some places, be used only as ceremonial/special occasions if many drinkers felt nothing due to RT caused by not drinking daily? Is it common for new or occasional drinkers to walk out of nakamals disappointed that they didn't get effects?

 

[Camaytoc]

Taking more to get an equivalent effect is certainly the usual definition of tolerance but the situation becomes more muddied in a substance that contains multiple chemical constituents in varied quantities that could effect the actions of each other based on those quantities and ratios. What I've noticed is that taking more never gets me the same level of effects I expect from past experiences so to me that indicates a weaker and lower quality product. On the other hand vendors will usually say that nothing has changed quality wise which suggests personal tolerance is at play.

I really do feel like RT is a term that is thrown around way too much. Having to raise and maintain chemical levels in the blood above a certain threshold and a reversing of tolerance are two different mechanisms. Is there evidence that this was ever an issue for island drinkers? How could kava, in some places, be used only as ceremonial/special occasions if many drinkers felt nothing due to RT caused by not drinking daily? Is it common for new or occasional drinkers to walk out of nakamals disappointed that they didn't get effects?

I think you're right when you say that RT is too quickly thrown away.
I'm also pretty sure that, contrary to weed and it's main psychoactive, THC, kava can induce several type of RT because of the multiple constituants.
Therefor, the RT phenomenom should remain the same, at least for certain fondamental rules.

The ideas of maintaining blood flow with kavalatones aim at explaining the probably most common way to breakthrough, but it doesn't speak about the fact that normaly, once your BT is done, it is done.

Surely, because od the kava's specifics, some may need to fight back with RT a bit after a long break, but it shouldn't be the same as first time in your life.

THC reverse tolerance is very interesting to use as a base comparison.

Just my semi-one cent

 

[AZcat]

That sounds more like “tolerance” and not so much “reverse tolerance”. I’ve noticed I’ve had to bump up my dosage too

Today I tried something else. 2 Heaped Teaspoons KWK Micronized Borongoru in one and half cups HOT water at about 130 degree F for 1 hour, then filtered though a cloth and cooled. Tasted pretty good and not at all bitter. Followed that with 2 heaped Teaspoons KWK Micronized Pouni Ono blended in one and half cups water. The effect was so strong I had to lie down, effects lasted for 6 hours !

 

[Kavashua]

Today I tried something else. 2 Heaped Teaspoons KWK Micronized Borongoru in one and half cups HOT water at about 130 degree F for 1 hour, then filtered though a cloth and cooled. Tasted pretty good and not at all bitter. Followed that with 2 heaped Teaspoons KWK Micronized Pouni Ono blended in one and half cups water. The effect was so strong I had to lie down, effects lasted for 6 hours !

Glad you’re finding new methods that work for you, fingers crossed in hope you keep getting desired results

 

[muddywaters]

I been trying new shaking methods with the alu ball to get more out of it, now getting a lot thicker kava every time and it's been helping a lot. I'll feel it for hours fully too but its more rare I get a lot of initial euphoria or anything that extreme 10 minutes or so after drinking that sticks around for a while unless I take a longer break. I hate to say it myself but I think tolerance is a thing with kava or at least to certain aspects of it if your a frequent drinker. This is my third time drinking it this week cause I been getting such good results but I'm gonna have to wait a while again till it's all washed through my system to see really see what's going on here.

 

[Michael1011]

I've had this problem too. I've noticed a ceiling on the effect over the last year, whereas when I started the sky was the limit. I could drink a bowl, or batch, which for me is usually 3-5 shells. It'd get me to level one and within an hour or two drink another brew and it would knock me to mars. There have been a few times where I've drank enough to see double. That doesn't happen anymore, even after drinking 3-4 bowls in a 3-4 hour period. It just makes me nauseous instead. Its kind of a bummer.

 

[recentreturn]

I've had this problem too. I've noticed a ceiling on the effect over the last year, whereas when I started the sky was the limit. I could drink a bowl, or batch, which for me is usually 3-5 shells. It'd get me to level one and within an hour or two drink another brew and it would knock me to mars. There have been a few times where I've drank enough to see double. That doesn't happen anymore, even after drinking 3-4 bowls in a 3-4 hour period. It just makes me nauseous instead. Its kind of a bummer.

Hmmm, I've gotten double vision relatively recently (can't say I really like it) by drinking stronger kavas such as Kava Time's Ambae's kava (which I think is sold out; probably permanently).