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Kava should be the first-line treatment for anxiety (esp. Mo'i)

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MikeB

MikeB

I like Mo'i
I have a hell of a lot of GHK's Mo'i sitting here. I also currently have a script for clonazepam (brand name Klonopin), a benzodiazepene. I currently treat both of them as things to take on an "as needed" basis. It's really interesting to compare the two.

Tolerance builds *very* quickly to clonazepam. If I end up taking it a couple days in a row, I suddenly find it stops working, unless I take more.

Meanwhile, Kava's still going strong over here.

Clonazepam is highly addictive. If I take it a few days in a row and then stop, I sometimes get weird cravings for it.

Meanwhile, Kava actively tells me to stop taking it after a few days. I just have no urge to do so at all. (which can be a problem in its own right)

I just don't see any other way to frame it. Superior efficacy, less side effects, low potential for abuse, no withdrawal symptoms, etc. The only reason that clonazepam is still in my life is that it can be quite irritating to chug down a cup of dirt on the go.

I know that we usually hate on Big Pharma over here, but they'd be idiots not to synthesize up some analogue of some kavalactone and time-release it. They'd make a billion dollars.
 
Ligermeat

Ligermeat

Warm and Fuzzeh!
Maybe in the future we'll see a pharma-grade lactone pill on the market, but for now, people are still afraid that their livers will explode :banghead:.
 
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MikeB

MikeB

I like Mo'i
Well it ain't like this stuff is going away, and anything that gets them to spend tons of money figuring out how Kava works is money well-spent IMO.
 
kilakila

kilakila

Kava keeps me going.
Big Pharma better keep their greedy little synthetic hands out of natures Kava. No synthetic derivative is going in my body any more. Not now I am just about healed from 2 years of just low dose benzo use and failed anti-depressants which made me far worse.
And yes, kava has helped me get through this and if I have to take it everyday, then that's fine with me!!
 
dino9832

dino9832

Kava Enthusiast
Big pharmaceuticals don't push anything natural that I know of. There's no money in it. So, it'd be the typical commercial producers of herbs and supplements to package it. Which they do! Like Gaia capsules.

I get what you're saying though. Take the active ingredient and create a time-released mechanism to it. A sort of value-added product. It might sell better than kava root. People tend to trust large pharmaceutical companies. They probably wouldn't trust someone like our providers here selling a bag of root out of an overcoat!..lol.
 
MikeB

MikeB

I like Mo'i
I wouldn't mind *at all* if more supplement companies sold high-quality kava pills.

What I'm saying is that I bet that it's true across the board that Kava is an objectively better drug for anxiety than benzodiazepenes in a number of ways. It is clearly just as efficacious, not habit-forming, not tolerance-building, etc. Given the right strain, it's non-drowsy and does not impact motor function. Different strains even seem to last longer than others, suggesting differences in half-life.

Huge advances in pharmaceuticals are often made by carefully studying the mechanism of action of some naturally psychoactive plant - opium being the classic example, which has spawned an entire zoo of other pharmaceuticals. I can imagine a future where kava is at the center of a similar thing.
 
Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
It would have to be made over long time, with someone who understands synergy, Traditional Kava usage, the reasons for the ban, and a genuine concern for people saftey and kavas saftey...hmmmm... with access and possible ownership of a pharmacueitcal company... hmmmm
 
E

EQ

Atman
You cannot simply take constituents and expect the same result.
It is comparing caffeine to Yerba Mate. That's enough of an example.

Plants are special and are of interest to me because all the little chemicals in the plants play a huge role in the outcome.
Pharmacy can get out of here.
No kavalactone alone will do anything compared to kava.

Drink kava. plain and simple

It is pretty apparent that people in pharmacy are of a scientific mind and don't think there to be any metaphysical connection, or importance, between human and plant.
 
kilakila

kilakila

Kava keeps me going.
I'll bet you that tragically failed research study in France (which apparently was studying a new drug for depression targeting the cannabiniod receptors) was based on the "if something works in nature let's try and replicate it in a Petrie dish" notion. You just cannot isolate a substance that occurs naturally and make a synthetic that works the same way in the hope of gaining a patent. Nature is synergistic and depends on actions that we mere humans will never be totally able to comprehend. So Big Pharma can stay well away from kava - I fear there would be some horrible adverse outcome and kava in its natural form would be vilified.
 
Ligermeat

Ligermeat

Warm and Fuzzeh!
kilakila said:
I'll bet you that tragically failed research study in France (which apparently was studying a new drug for depression targeting the cannabiniod receptors) was based on the "if something works in nature let's try and replicate it in a Petrie dish" notion. You just cannot isolate a substance that occurs naturally and make a synthetic that works the same way in the hope of gaining a patent. Nature is synergistic and depends on actions that we mere humans will never be totally able to comprehend. So Big Pharma can stay well away from kava - I fear there would be some horrible adverse outcome and kava in its natural form would be vilified.
Click to expand...
Just look at the tragic example of the coca plant. Naturally, the cocoa plant produces a pleasant euphoric high akin to caffeine that's not really that addictive. However, when we humans tried to extract the chemicals in coca, we ended up with cocaine: one of the most dangerous and addicting drugs ever. And so, both cocaine and the benign coca were banned in the us.
 
Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
Haha Its understandable that there isn't a desire to chug dirt water or however we want to put it, but the fact is that kava needs some attention or respected sense to be full. This can be achieved by some of our gracious vendors such @Paradise Kava and kava candies have done. But as you said those don't help you specifically
 
dino9832

dino9832

Kava Enthusiast
MikeB said:
....Huge advances in pharmaceuticals are often made by carefully studying the mechanism of action of some naturally psychoactive plant - opium being the classic example, which has spawned an entire zoo of other pharmaceuticals. I can imagine a future where kava is at the center of a similar thing.
Click to expand...
There may be some merit to a kava-like antidepressant. Granted, IF they don't screw it up! It probably wouldn't be like kava at all. But, something based on the same mechanisms as kava. You really can't beat the real thing though. As TheanineLife pointed out, nature has a combination of substances in a plant that most likely work together. Isolating any one substance is not going to behave the same. But, maybe kava contain a lesson to be learned per se. Some strains help with pain, and others are more like anti-depressants. All non-addicting and having reverse tolerance. Pretty awesome stuff! Goooooo NATURE!
 
Jonathan

Jonathan

All Hail Leon
wanderingwoodsmith said:
No matter how close they get to replicating the effects of kava in a lab, it still lacks the fingerprint of life :)
Click to expand...
Agreed. Also one of the main beneficial components of whole kava root is glutathione. If extracted kavalactones were put into pill form, they should include glutathione. That's what opens up the liver detox pathways and allows everything to flush. Whole root or micronized is the best, but I would be interested to see pill form extracts that contained glutathione as well. They'd have to be pretty strong though, IMO. All of the extracts I've taken so far have not really measured up to root.
 
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