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Making your own extract

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
I have to ask the question why would you need to? A teaspoon of instant in an 8 oz bottle of milk well shaken can take me to good places if I've been consuming regularly. Even if not then 2 or 3 will definitely do the job. That's super cheap, efficient and portable, why the need to go further?
 

Sam Handwich

Kava Enthusiast
So what's in instant besides kavalactones, exactly?

Is there *any* way to end up with something more concentrated than instant, without having to buy a CO2 extractor? There must be something clever one can do at home...
Instant made at home is just the solid remains of normal grog after the water is evaporated. So it's essentially just plant matter and is not much different than micro. It is in no way an extract because it is still just kava root material. Water was added, then water was removed. An extract is a way of chemically extracting the kavalactones from the root material. At this point it can be super concentrated, but really is no longer kava. Kavalactone extract is to kava what a caffeine pill is to coffee.
 

MikeB

I like Mo'i
@Edward - If you can get a decent dose from 1 tsp I envy you... Usually takes about 1 Tbsp over here. You really enjoy mixing it with milk? I've never tried that but my instinct is that it'd taste awful...

@Sam Handwich, thanks for clearing that up. I will say that the GHK Mo'i extract I tried had pretty much the same effect as Mo'i by itself, like I didn't notice any extra adverse effects from the rest of the plant material missing or anything like that. But I also don't know if the "extract" was just pure kavalactones like you describe - it definitely still tasted pretty earthy, and delightful... mmm, Mo'i...
 

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
@Edward - If you can get a decent dose from 1 tsp I envy you... Usually takes about 1 Tbsp over here. You really enjoy mixing it with milk? I've never tried that but my instinct is that it'd taste awful...
Only if I have been using for a few days so my levels are topped up.

Try it and see... it makes a real difference to the effect and it doesn't taste anywhere near as bad as it sounds. Easier on the stomach too.
 

MikeB

I like Mo'i
OK, I'll give it a shot. FWIW I've been using micro instead of instant recently to save money, but just bought some more so I'll see how it goes.

The lemon juice + miracle berry + kava thing is really amazing though, wow. Actually makes it taste good, no lie.
 

verticity

I'm interested in things
OK: Like @Sam Handwich said, extraction is a process of selectively extracting chemicals from plant material, leaving most of the plant material behind. Also, like @Edward said, I prefer traditional prep or instant to any extract I have tried. I personally get better effects with trad prep or instant. Everything I said above about how to make extract was under the assumption that extract was what you wanted, although extract is not really my bailiwick. Some people like it a lot: using it sublingually oftentimes.

So, to answer your question: how to make a truly concentrated extract. Here are a couple ideas:
1) Alcohol (food safe high-proof ethanol, everclear or vodka).
2) Coconut oil saturation. What I mean by that is do the extraction using maybe 1/4 of cup coconut oil and 1/8 cup of kava powder at high temperature (100C). Strain using the smallest micron filter that works. Maybe 50 or 25 microns. I have some filters from Duda, which are originally intended for straining diesel fuel. (These I affectionately call my "Mariotti Bags" after @Steve Mariotti ). Discard the makas. Repeat the process with the same coconut oil, and another 1/8 cup of fresh kava powder. Repeat this until the coconut oil is completely saturated with kavalactones. That is, until it the coconut oil can't hold any more KLs. How do you know when you have reached saturation? I'm not sure, maybe if a taste test is not much more numbing than the previous iteration. This is just an idea; I have not tried to actually do it, so the parameters I gave (1/8 cup in 1/4 cup, etc, may not be optimal) I would be interested to see how concentrated a coconut paste you could make this way. Yes, this is not the most efficient way to extract KLs: some would be wasted, but the coconut paste you get should be pretty potent, I think.
 

MikeB

I like Mo'i
Yeah, sublingual extract dosing is exactly what I'm after!

Not bad ideas here. I guess my first question is, are alcohol extracts safe? I had always heard they might have been the cause of liver disease and etc.

The idea of just completely saturating coconut oil is really interesting, I'll have to think about that.

Do you think that making an extract from an instant as a starting point would be easier than starting with med grind or micro?
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
If anyone goes the coconut oil route, don't use a strainer bag that contains colors or dyes. We had a member try it back in the old days that extracted the pattern off of his strainer into the oil. Those colorants can be pretty toxic.
 

verticity

I'm interested in things
Yeah, sublingual extract dosing is exactly what I'm after!

Not bad ideas here. I guess my first question is, are alcohol extracts safe? I had always heard they might have been the cause of liver disease and etc.

The idea of just completely saturating coconut oil is really interesting, I'll have to think about that.

Do you think that making an extract from an instant as a starting point would be easier than starting with med grind or micro?
Small amounts of alcohol are safe to ingest. You would dry it out to get practically all the alcohol out, though. Alcohol is a potent solvent for the compounds in kava. It will extract everything that is in there; it will not select kavalactones (good) at the expense of flavokavains (possibly bad). However, when you drink micronized or instant, you are also drinking everything in the root except the hard fibrous makas. Most people say traditional extraction is "safer" than alcohol extraction. I have read some papers purporting to show that; nonetheless, I am not convinced it is true. That's my opinion, but you should know that it is a heterodox opinion.

This brings up an interesting question: is coconut oil extraction "safer" (in the sense of extracting less FKB than alcohol extraction)? I have absolutely no idea. It could be "safer", or it could be "less safe". The scientific studies that would answer that question have not been done, that I know of.

But really, in my opinion, the most important way to ensure safety is to have good root to begin with: noble, no bark aerial plant parts. In other words, root from any of the vendors here that has been tested as noble.

If you are making extract, you should use medium grind. The goal with extraction is to separate the chemicals of interest from the rest of the plant material. If you have an extremely finely ground micronized or instant, it will not be possible to do that, because the fine particles will pass through your filter. You could make extract with instant if you had a centrifuge, but that would be a very expensive way to make extract. There is no advantage to making extract from micro or instant.
 

Steve Mariotti

Kavapithecus Krunkarensis
Review Maestro
Those duda diesel bags are pretty rad. Once you remove the steel wire ring from the opening, it's just another nylon bag (albeit a superstraining one.)
 

Stephanie12

Herbalist
So, to answer your question: how to make a truly concentrated extract. Here are a couple ideas:
1) Alcohol (food safe high-proof ethanol, everclear or vodka).
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but aren't the chemicals we're after extracted with 35% alcohol, therefore isn't it safer what-to-speak cheaper to dilute it with water?
 

verticity

I'm interested in things
Sorry to bring up an old thread, but aren't the chemicals we're after extracted with 35% alcohol, therefore isn't it safer what-to-speak cheaper to dilute it with water?
You are right, and I would recommend going even further and use 0% alcohol. Just use water.

This looks like one of those very old threads where we were just speculatively bullshitting. There was a period of time several years ago where I compulsively posted a very large volume of nonsense like this. It's highly embarrassing that it still exists online.

My advice today is please just ignore this thread. Do not try to make any kind of alcoholic/solvent extract. Kava is really not like other things that as a herbalist you might make tincture of etc. It is best prepared in the traditional way: just knead it in water, drink it, and be happy.
 
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