Non Addictive Drugs

[HeadHodge]

Not as disappointed as Jonathan Yee and Kavasseur. Remember this, people also have to get up and work the next day. Though I know plenty of people who go to work in the morning impersonating Zombies so I guess it wouldn't matter for them. By the way, who said ISA/Tudei was good for pain relief? Is it just assumed? Headgie, did you get into the Tudei when you had your neck injury? I'm leaving the door open but you have to fess up if you are retired.

I believe several people in the past have said so. It probably depends on the type of pain. Should be good for muscle type pain.

For my neck and back surgery pain, i have taken oxycotton, tyleno, wine, and kava. Fortunately my pain subsided as I healed from my surgery, so Im way more fortunate than people with chronic pain. I believe its the word chronic that causes the addictions.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Not as disappointed as Jonathan Yee and Kavasseur. Remember this, people also have to get up and work the next day. Though I know plenty of people who go to work in the morning impersonating Zombies so I guess it wouldn't matter for them. By the way, who said ISA/Tudei was good for pain relief? Is it just assumed? Headgie, did you get into the Tudei when you had your neck injury? I'm leaving the door open but you have to fess up if you are retired.

It's not that there's somethings special about Isa/Tudei for pain relief, it's just that those varieties have higher amounts DHM, which has been shown to be the best analgesic kavalactone, on it's own and synergistically with the others. I've seen a few a studies mention it, here's a bit of info from Kava: Enthnology to Pharmacology:

"The analgesic actions of the kava constituents dihydrokavain and dihydromethysticin
were investigated utilizing the Gross modification of the Hardy, Wolff, and Goodell​

radiant heat method (Brüggemann and Meyer, 1963). Both kavalactones in doses

of 100–140 mg/kg ip had analgesic activity as indicated by an increase in reaction
time, with dihydromethysticin producing about a 1.3 times higher level of anesthesia
than dihydrokavain and acetylsalicylic acid(Aspirin) (200 mg/kg), being almost equipotent to
aminopyrine (100 mg/kg) and being inferior to morphine (2.5 mg/kg).

...Of the purified lactones tested,​

kavain, dihydrokavain, methysticin, and dihydromethysticin had potent analgesic properties.

The peak effect was similar for the four compounds, but the time course of
action differed markedly. The action of dihydrokavain was most rapid but short-lived
(20–30 minutes), that of kavain a little more prolonged, while the actions of methysticin
and dihydromethysticin were more persistent (about 4 hours). The yangonins, on the
other hand, had negligible or no effect, even up to a dosage of 1 g/kg ip (Jamieson et al., 1989; Jamieson and Duffield, 1990a)."​

 

[Deleted User01]

I agree. Chronic pain is the real crisis. Somebody needs to find a cure for that. I have my little itis's like tendonitis and arthritis (in the fingers) but I can deal with them and I can actually get much better if I did the ice and therapy thing. My wife just mentioned that one of our friends can hardly get out of bed because of her knees and they may have to do something drastic like surgery to fix it. That's a bummer. By the way, I'm glad you healed so well. If I was in your shoes, I'd be saying "Dodged another bullet". Man, they is coming to get us. Shields up!

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

Im kinda dissapointed no one mentioned using tudei kava, like ISA, for pain relief.

The idea of using tudei or ISA for anything at anytime is too unpopular now. With the continual removal from the market, we'll probably never really know what real life potential they might or might not have.

Remember this, people also have to get up and work the next day. Though I know plenty of people who go to work in the morning impersonating Zombies so I guess it wouldn't matter for them.

This mindset is flawed. People who experience chronic pain have a hard time or sometimes are unable to get up and go to work without having something to remove or lessen the pain. Also, 24 hour a day pain means that sleep is disrupted and many nights isn't possible. Chronic sleep deprivation has much worse effects on daytime performance than any psychoactive pain killing herb that I have used.

I think it would be interesting to explore using kava in conjunction with different painkillers. While kava won't replace them, I bet it could help people reduce their dosages or at least decrease their reliance on addictive pain killers.

I agree. It would help turn more people on to kava if they had confidence that it could be added to their normal regimen. That kind of discussion would require the upsides of certain other substances to be allowed, though. I've experienced this personally, when I have a need for pharmaceutical opiates, certain types of kava do allow me to skip the night time dose which is a very good thing.

 

[HeadHodge]

The idea of using tudei or ISA for anything at anytime is too unpopular now. With the continual removal from the market, we'll probably never really know what real life potential they might or might not have.



This mindset is flawed. People who experience chronic pain have a hard time or sometimes are unable to get up and go to work without having something to remove or lessen the pain. Also, 24 hour a day pain means that sleep is disrupted and many nights isn't possible. Chronic sleep deprivation has much worse effects on daytime performance than any psychoactive pain killing herb that I have used.



I agree. It would help turn more people on to kava if they had confidence that it could be added to their normal regimen. That kind of discussion would require the upsides of certain other substances to be allowed, though. I've experienced this personally, when I have a need for pharmaceutical opiates, certain types of kava do allow me to skip the night time dose which is a very good thing.

Your thoughts made me happy I started this thread

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

I think tuedi has potential and it's place. I don't think it will be eradicated from the market place however ... I think we get a little over dramatic here at the forums as to what OUR impact really is on the future of tuedi.
It will exist in the future.. and I hope it becomes available for purchase eventually with specific labels..

 

[Groggy]

I agree with @Mrbinx69 that proper labeling would be ideal in the future of kava and I also doubt we can eradicate tudei. I have no experience with ISA and very little with tudei but I think that in the case of pain management, who am I to judge a personal choice when I as well have used opiates in times of need.

I really believe kava can and is the alternative answer to many chronic conditions as we've all seen in the forums but also from my personal experience over the last couple years.

 

[gork]

jman, thats why you should use kava so you can relieve enough anxiety to enable you to watch our fearless leader.

Im kinda dissapointed no one mentioned using tudei kava, like ISA, for pain relief.

Probably to avoid drama. I totally respect that. So I shall simply say it: I don't know what specific root El Monato(SP) Sells. They simply don't know. Maybe it is a Isa, May it is not I've asked them because it's awesome stuff ^_^. So I shall guess it MIGHT be. They honestly didn't know. FWIW. It;s It taste like dirt+nut meg. It might simply be mix that tastes like dirt and nutmeg.

So I shall guess and simply say it. From photos and descriptions La Montanita(SP it's got a unlated N) sells/Sold Something that has Isa in the mix. It's got characteristic YogiTea dirt+spice+nutmeg smell and feel. Since it's likely a Isa, it'd be great for them to own that, and label it. For one thing then I'd know what to look at amazon or WholeAmazon or TraderJoes etc that's been pleasent and helpful for my TechNech. It's also just the done thing to label your stuff.

For me on it's own it's hit and mis for my TechNech. But small to medium amount with my regular meds it's been helpful for managing anxieity. If this morning when I was having a flare up is any indication it's helpful. I don't think i'd want much more, Or I wouldn't be able to do anything...nothing productive anyway lol. It leads me to a happly silly, relaxed place, but clearheadish place. Yet such that I can still do things.

My experience as a concrete example of Kava being helpful it in its own way was how friday and Sunday I had a nasty flare up of TechNech. El-Manata Local KavaBrandKava on its own was not all that helpful. However, it certainly seemed to help the Methocarbinal me and the doctor are trying to work a little better. In that it lead to a nice silly happy, yet alert enough place to be able to still do clean the house, get some spiderwebing for halloween. I could also start, re-starting the web side to a play-nice-together place. As a concrete example I tried out SimplePress a forum and chat plugin for wordpress, Comparing that to dedicated chat and forum software.

My experience do far is is that KavaKava helps suff work better. LOL I shall just say it: Donald was and still is a nutbar. And what gamers call a troll. He seems to be surounded bout 500 Ahole trolls. And NOTHING 500 or so bickering jerks at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue has gone well this year.

I am trying to manage chronic nerve and inflmation issues, start a company, and muddle along the best a I know. Yet those 500 something NutBars I think are auditioning to be Zombies, and trying out for the Sith Acolyte Global Chaos Team. Their First Order of Business? Chaos and Mayhem between the Ministers of Korea, Britain, Scotland and the US.
(Thank you thank you I'll stop posting now.)

 

[Kravatomill]

I think kava has some values for pain surely, but to me it feels more like a local anesthetic and muscle relaxant. it's great for post workout aches and similar, but doesn't do much for my back-pain.
It might be controversial here but I still think K@ is a great next to non-addictive alternative to life devastating opiates. I ate about 10g a day between 2007 to 2013 and quit as soon as I moved to Thailand due to local laws. I think that anything you make into a daily routine to that extent will have some psychological withdrawal symptoms, but after a few days I had accustomed myself back. Sure I still had bad RLS and some back-pain, and still have today for that matter, but I also had the same before 2007...
My biggest mistake was not continuing just living with the moderate pain and RLS, but a few months later fool myself to believe tramadol and benzo was an ok solution, after all they were available here. needless to say quitting after a year of tramadol was not even comparable to quitting K@ after 5-6 years. Took me about a month to tapper out...

But I guess we all are different, and surely some seem to get addicted to things easier than others.
Right now I'm waiting for some kava Supreme, have only had kava king for awhile now so will be interesting to see if this one will help my RLS and maybe even ease my back pain a bit.

 

[gork]

I think kava has some values for pain surely, but to me it feels more like a local anesthetic and muscle relaxant. it's great for post workout aches and similar, but doesn't do much for my back-pain.
It might be controversial here but I still think K@ is a great next to non-addictive alternative to life devastating opiates. I ate about 10g a day between 2007 to 2013 and quit as soon as I moved to Thailand due to local laws. I think that anything you make into a daily routine to that extent will have some psychological withdrawal symptoms, but after a few days I had accustomed myself back. Sure I still had bad RLS and some back-pain, and still have today for that matter, but I also had the same before 2007...
My biggest mistake was not continuing just living with the moderate pain and RLS, but a few months later fool myself to believe tramadol and benzo was an ok solution, after all they were available here. needless to say quitting after a year of tramadol was not even comparable to quitting K@ after 5-6 years. Took me about a month to tapper out...

But I guess we all are different, and surely some seem to get addicted to things easier than others.
Right now I'm waiting for some kava Supreme, have only had kava king for awhile now so will be interesting to see if this one will help my RLS and maybe even ease my back pain a bit.

As the maxim says " the right tool for the job" I agree that KavaKava is awesome in it's own way. It helps my TechNech some and the kinds I enjoy lead me to a silly, life is good place. Like I said in my post I prefer to start with some Kava and Ibuprofien. Post Gym for me Kava is BA. I have smoothy with spinch, protien, for before the gym a bit of creatine. AFTER the Gym? Lots of water. And a shake of Weirdly, Green Tea with ginseng, gingko, a bit of honey and Hanopi AI and when I had some Eua SOOOO hit the spot.