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The Kap'n

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
Kojo Douglas said:
For me, caffeine and Kava are a horrible combination. I was shocked when that Sol Tea brand came out with caffeinated teas mixed with Kava. I drank one mug and felt super anxious. Caffeine alone doesn't bother me.
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I have a hunch it's due to liver metabolic pathways.

Caffeine is metabolized by the CYP1A2.
Source: https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00201#pharmacology

Check out the following research, and quote on kava's ability to inhibit that pathway.
See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12386118

Whole kava extract (normalized to 100 microM total kavalactones) caused concentration-dependent decreases in P450 activities, with significant inhibition of the activities of CYP1A2 (56% inhibition), 2C9 (92%), 2C19 (86%), 2D6 (73%), 3A4 (78%), and 4A9/11 (65%) following preincubation for 15 min with HLMs and NADPH; CYP2A6, 2C8, and 2E1 activities were unaffected. The activities of CYP2C9, 2C19, 2D6, and 3A4 were also measured after incubation of HLMs with the major kavalactones kawain (K), desmethoxyyangonin (DMY), methysticin (M), dihydromethysticin (DHM) (each at 10 microM), and NADPH. Whereas K did not inhibit these enzymes, there was significant inhibition of CYP2C9 by DMY (42%), M (58%), and DHM (69%); of 2C19 by DHM (76%); of 2D6 by M (44%); and of 3A4 by DMY (40%), M (27%), and DHM (54%). Consistent with their potency as inhibitors, the two major kavalactones bearing a methylenedioxyphenyl moiety (M and DHM) formed "455 nm" metabolic intermediate complexes after incubation with HLMs and NADPH, but K and DMY did not.
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It would explain the odd effects people get while consuming caffeine, or at least give us a great place to start.
 
BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC

BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC

Learn to love me, assemble the ways...
Kapmcrunk said:
I have a hunch it's due to liver metabolic pathways.

Caffeine is metabolized by the CYP1A2.
Source: https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00201#pharmacology

Check out the following research, and quote on kava's ability to inhibit that pathway.
See: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12386118



It would explain the odd effects people get while consuming caffeine, or at least give us a great place to start.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. They fight for the same receptors as well. As kava bumps caffiene off, this causes increased plasma concentrations of caffiene. This is worth noting. Thanks for the info!
 
The Kap'n

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Kapmcrunk said:
I'm putting together a guide of sorts to help those out who are finding the effects of caffeine to be stronger and possibly uncomfortable

http://kavaforums.com/forum/brdc-document/kava-and-caffeine.14/

It'll be in the "Kava Essentials" tab :)
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Wow, I always thought this was something that just happened with me. Now I know it's a real thing. I remember one time I had a tanoa or six and then suddenly had a big issue come up that I needed to address for work. I made some strong coffee and drank a mug as I sat down to prepare for work. About one hour later, I was pondering calling for an ambulance because my heart was racing and I felt absolutely overwhelmed by crippling panic/anxiety. I thought I was having a heart attack.
 
BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC

BulamamatoNCIRVCKKPC

Learn to love me, assemble the ways...
avahZ

avahZ

YAHWEH Shalom
Kapmcrunk said:
I'm putting together a guide of sorts to help those out who are finding the effects of caffeine to be stronger and possibly uncomfortable

http://kavaforums.com/forum/brdc-document/kava-and-caffeine.14/

It'll be in the "Kava Essentials" tab :)
Click to expand...
Nice! I bet that is the reason I like Kava (small amount) with my coffee. It takes a ton of caffeine before I feel it. I appear to be a “hard head” for caffeine and a light weight for kava. Kava may inhibit what may be a quick caffeine break down in my system. I like the mix, but as I have said before too much can reverse the nice effects. I don’t mix my Friday kava shells though. That’s a different effect I won’t ruin. The small amount of kava I add to my cold brew coffee is a morning jolt to get to work...
 
Intrepidus_dux

Intrepidus_dux

Kava O.G.
If you make soba noodles, those are healthy and good for balancing blood sugar. Gotta use the soup base with the MSG though. It simply tastes better.
 
ProjectK

ProjectK

Kava Enthusiast
To add to this, goldfish crackers were eaten after a session of Nambawan. This lead to almost too much krunkness to the point where I was uncomfortable. Weird how something like that can set off the buzz like it did.
 
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