Some advice required please

[Edward]

My wife has suffered from anxiety and depression most of her life. She has been under increasingly more stress at work recently and in the last few weeks she has said that her anxiety levels are the highest they have been in 20 years. Everything makes her anxious including me. It's come to the point where I am working away from home and she doesn't want me to call or text her even, just to leave her alone completely. She says she still loves me and wants to be with me but that she just can't at the moment. I've tried to get her on kava but she has had a gastric bypass so it is difficult for her to get it in. Her theory about not seeing me is that she doesn't want me to become a trigger for her anxiety so that we can never be together without her being anxious about me being there. To anyone who has had anxiety to that level, does that make sense to you? It's obviously hard as a husband to be told that you can't be around or even contact your wife without risking your future relationship. The other difficult thing is that there is no way of saying how long this will go on for. She is on fluoxetine which the doctors have just increased from 40 mg to 60 mg daily and she was on the 40 mg dose since before her bypass. Maybe it could be that she's not been absorbing all of the drug because of the bypass and the increased dose may help? Any insights into this to set my mind at rest that this is relatively normal would help. Or otherwise as well of course. Thanks.

 

[kavamehameha]

I'm really sorry for what you and your wife are going through and I wish you both strength. I don't suffer from that severe anxiety, but every person is different, and if she feels that way then it makes absolutely sense, even though it might seem irrational. Anxiety is an illness. I suggest you try talking privately to a doctor and discuss the situation with him/her. If the work is causing the main stress for your wife, maybe she can cut it down for a while until she feels better?

I understand that this is very difficult for you, but I think in the end you just need to be patient and faithful. As you can see there isn't really more I can say, unfortunately. If you need someone to talk to, just drop me an e-mail.

 

[Jacob Bula]

The hard truth is, we are all friends here, so we are just going to tell you what you want to hear. Only you and your wife know your situation, and with acute anxiety I'm not sure how effective fluoxetine is. I used to be a social worker, and the only effective treatment for anxiety is medication (from a psychiatrist not just a GP or family doctor), and therapy (usually exposure therapy). If she thinks something is a trigger for anxiety, the only way to overcome that type of anxiety is to be exposed to the triggers through repeated exposure of gradually increasing duration and intensity. I wouldn't recommend long periods of avoidance. Maybe ask her if she would be willing to see a couples therapist that specializes in anxiety disorders.

MAPS is currently working on MDMA assisted THERAPY for PTSD/anxiety. Not sure if her anxiety is PTSD related, but they have had very promising results so far. Some fungi have dramatically improved the lives of people with depression/anxiety, but have made things worse for others (specifically people that have a family history of mood disorder or personality disorders).

I'm sorry you are going through this-- I know it hurts. Hope you are doing okay Edward.

 

[Groggy]

To anyone who has had anxiety to that level, does that make sense to you?

It does unfortunately, our brain can get stuck on what feels like a hopeless cycle of anxiety, that is fueled by a perceived sense of doom of the potential anxiety that we perceive is yet to come. It's a terrible way to live, it is often accompanied by panic attacks, some so severe it can shut down our rational mind. I've been there, pre kava days.

What helped me then was Paxil which I don't usually recommend because the body becomes accustomed to it and then expects it. It does wonders for what it is supposed to do. It does also require a slow tapper off later on, when the medication is not necessary anymore. but may be something your wife can talk to her psychiatrist about. Cognitive behavioral therapy along with some form of SSRi, (Paxil is particurlarly good with extreme anxiety). was what got me out of that cyclic thinking. Benzos can be used along with Paxil safely for panic attacks but it is best used seldom.

kava was my ultimate salvation, it got rid of all my needs of any Benzo's, alcohol (bonus). But i don't have to tell you about the pros. Perhaps try untraditional routes with your wife, like kava candy or instant disguized with mango juice.

I wish her & you all the best. It gets better and my advice to you is be strong for her, it will get better. The support of my family made a huge difference for me at the time.

 

[Edward]

Thanks all. I'm thinking she knows best how to deal with things because she's been through this before and come out the other side so I just have to let her work things out for herself I think.

 

[Zaphod]

My wife has suffered from anxiety and depression most of her life. She has been under increasingly more stress at work recently and in the last few weeks she has said that her anxiety levels are the highest they have been in 20 years. Everything makes her anxious including me. It's come to the point where I am working away from home and she doesn't want me to call or text her even, just to leave her alone completely. She says she still loves me and wants to be with me but that she just can't at the moment. I've tried to get her on kava but she has had a gastric bypass so it is difficult for her to get it in. Her theory about not seeing me is that she doesn't want me to become a trigger for her anxiety so that we can never be together without her being anxious about me being there. To anyone who has had anxiety to that level, does that make sense to you? It's obviously hard as a husband to be told that you can't be around or even contact your wife without risking your future relationship. The other difficult thing is that there is no way of saying how long this will go on for. She is on fluoxetine which the doctors have just increased from 40 mg to 60 mg daily and she was on the 40 mg dose since before her bypass. Maybe it could be that she's not been absorbing all of the drug because of the bypass and the increased dose may help? Any insights into this to set my mind at rest that this is relatively normal would help. Or otherwise as well of course. Thanks.

Not much to offer except double check any new medications she is taking. My wife and I had a rough go a few years back and while we were struggling with kids, work, etc. the real culprit (or at least 90%) we both agree was her new birth control method. I am sure you know but medications, especially hormones, can reek havoc on ones mental state. Once she ditched that evil nuva ring and went back to her normal medication there was a drastic change.

I wish you well in figuring it out. Good luck.

 

[ThePiper]

I’m sorry to hear your wife is having these problems and they are no doubt affecting you too. It’s so hard to work out these issues between yourself and people you love with mental health because you don’t know what’s going on in her head and what is really “the right thing” for her. I myself have come to accept that I know best for my own mental health, but I have benefited immensely from people pushing me and confronting me about behaviors that undermine my potential. I have the benefit of having loved ones who are patient and learned along with me that it’s not as simple as it looks. Other people spend their whole lives with ignorant people yelling at them for not being normal enough, and they completely shut down from any proactive conversation. Of course you are her husband and she does owe it to you to work towards a situation where this issue isn’t ongoing.

To put in my two cents I think that you and your wife should bring this up with a psychologist/therapist and check with her doctor about the medications because it doesn’t sound like she’s getting satisfactory results from what she’s taking. I know nothing about the nature of her anxiety but it definitely sounds like these coping mechanisms are going to take her further into a downward spiral, because one cannot sustain themselves on work alone. If I don’t keep up relationships with friends, family, or my significant other through rough times of anxiety and depression I always get worse. Based on your limited description this looks like her depression talking. Depressed thinking has a way of deterring Yourself from anything healthy for your mind and spirit. I don’t know her so this is completely based on my own experience, and If it was me doing this behavior I know I would be doubling down on my negative spiral (a common behavior for me and others I know with depression and anxiety.)

 

[Aceofwands9]

I am sorry to hear your wife is having such a rough time, Edward. My anxiety is not as bad as all that, but it was bad enough to get me diagnosed with schizophrenia (which I don't believe I have ) due to altered behavior, social avoidance, and nervous outbursts.

My road to recovery was and is incorporating herbs, especially nervines and adaptogens, into my daily life. Even if this doesn't translate into a dedicated treatment for your wife, sometimes a little bit can help put things into perspective and give the ability to start to see that there even is a light at the end of the tunnel. Some of my favorite are scullcap, California poppy, passionflower, hyssop, blue vervain, Tulsi, ashwagandha, and Valerian. I prefer prepping these in a cup of herbal tea as opposed to capsules or tinctures, but that's me.

Also, I'm not sure if Hemp is legal in the UK, but some CBD or CBG oil can work wonders.

I wish you and your wife the best of luck with this.

 

[Manuel Joao]

Well hell I have the answer, more kava. Back in the old days they would say that’s hysteria and you need to screw you wife on a more regular basis

 

[Edward]

Well hell I have the answer, more kava

Oh don't worry, my consumption has gone up dramatically! Unfortunately I can't persuade her to drink it due to a gastric bypass operation.

The funny thing is it takes away quite a lot of the anxious feeling I get but it doesn't take away the nagging pain in the heart or the sadness. I know that if I keep drinking the kava then everything will resolve itself or the kava gods will show me the way forward. I just want to get to the point where I am thinking more clearly about things and can think about the whole thing without feeling so bad.

 

[The Kap'n]

Oh don't worry, my consumption has gone up dramatically! Unfortunately I can't persuade her to drink it due to a gastric bypass operation.

The funny thing is it takes away quite a lot of the anxious feeling I get but it doesn't take away the nagging pain in the heart or the sadness. I know that if I keep drinking the kava then everything will resolve itself or the kava gods will show me the way forward. I just want to get to the point where I am thinking more clearly about things and can think about the whole thing without feeling so bad.

My thoughts are with you, Edward. I don't care what anyone says, that's a tough situation. You touched on something that caught my eye, and that was the gastric bypass. Gastric bypass changes the absorption profile of oral medications.

Prior to drug approval, oral bioavailability of medications is typically studied in patients with normal GI tracts. Bariatric surgery results in anatomical changes to the GI tract, and thus it can affect absorption and metabolism of oral medications.

Mary Carpenter, P. D. A. C. C. P. A. U. M. C. A. (2016, December 16). Implications of Bariatric Surgery on Absorption of Nutrients and Medications. U.S. Pharmacist – The Leading Journal in Pharmacy. https://www.uspharmacist.com/articl...ry-on-absorption-of-nutrients-and-medications

 

[Edward]

My thoughts are with you, Edward. I don't care what anyone says, that's a tough situation. You touched on something that caught my eye, and that was the gastric bypass. Gastric bypass changes the absorption profile of oral medications.



Mary Carpenter, P. D. A. C. C. P. A. U. M. C. A. (2016, December 16). Implications of Bariatric Surgery on Absorption of Nutrients and Medications. U.S. Pharmacist – The Leading Journal in Pharmacy. https://www.uspharmacist.com/articl...ry-on-absorption-of-nutrients-and-medications

That's what I'm hoping this is all about and it can get fixed relatively easily.

I appreciate everyone's insight onto this anyway, when you need a friend... kavaforums every time!

 

[Jacob Bula]

Oh don't worry, my consumption has gone up dramatically! Unfortunately I can't persuade her to drink it due to a gastric bypass operation.

The funny thing is it takes away quite a lot of the anxious feeling I get but it doesn't take away the nagging pain in the heart or the sadness. I know that if I keep drinking the kava then everything will resolve itself or the kava gods will show me the way forward. I just want to get to the point where I am thinking more clearly about things and can think about the whole thing without feeling so bad.

When I'm away from my wife for more than a day, it hurts. When you've spent so much of your life with someone its as if your personalities become fused together and without them you don't really feel like yourself. This sucks, PM me if you ever want to talk.

 

[kasa_balavu]

Sorry to hear about your wife's illness, Edward. That sounds really rough.
I don't have much to say, except that I found this bit worrying:

just to leave her alone completely

From my (admittedly limited) experience, avoidance of a trigger doesn't only do nothing to reduce the effects when you eventually have to face a trigger, it can actually make the reaction/anxiety worse. That's why they sometimes use CBT to treat some anxiety disorders. CBT of course, involves exposure to whatever triggers the anxiety.
Anyway, I'm no expert, so it goes without saying that it would be best to speak to a professional. But I'm sure you two can get through this together.

 

[Edward]

I've got an update on this situation. I'm pretty sure everything is going to be alright. She's still anxious and depressed but when I got home from a week away on Friday we had a chat and set out a road map with no dates to get back to normal. First thing is that she says she definitely still wants to be married to me and me to live there but she still needs a bit of time. We had a good day on Saturday, out for lunch and shopping in the afternoon and despite feeling tired as she is not sleeping well she seemed a bit happier. Sunday morning she wasn't so good which I expected as Sundays are her worst day before she goes to work on Monday. I came away and I'm away for the week now but we have agreed that I will call her every evening (except Sundays) and we are going to see each other every weekend.. There are some changes possibly happening in her current employment and she is also looking for a different job so things are looking positive there and I'm guessing her increased dose of fluoxetine is probably starting to work as well. She still won't say in words that everything is going to be ok and that we are definitely going to be together in the future but I think that's more to do with her anxiety and depression and not being able to see light at the end of the tunnel just at the moment.

I want to say thank you to everyone who took the time to read this and especially those of you who posted above. I appreciate your thoughts, kindness and advice.

 

[ThePiper]

I’m glad to hear that things are improving

 

[Aceofwands9]

That's great to hear! It sounds like you're having some progress. Don't be too alarmed if things take a step back as they go forward along the way. One of my greatest obstacles on the road to recovery is admitting that I like 'the new me ' more than I miss my identity entangled in crisis. It takes real courage to emerge a phoenix from the ashes. Just stay supportive bro!

 

[BobBriggs]

How about drinking kava with as little water as possible?

 

[faldho]

A gastric bypass will negatively effect your gut bacteria which is strongly linked to your mental health. I would recommend looking into probiotics and prebiotic supplements.

People who are resistant to anti-depressants can get Ketamine infusions with great results.

 

[Edward]

How about drinking kava with as little water as possible?

There's something in her mind telling her not to drink kava and I think it's to do with not losing control although I've told her it's not like that. I think that's why anything else sedative doesn't work for her (hypnotherapy too), because she fights the thought that she is losing control.