TribalCulture
Krunkonomicon
Within the last year I noticed a spike, including on Amazon where I noticed what could be bought last year for 20-30 range nearly doubled.
Kava Prices Discussion
- Thread starter TribalCulture
- Start date
The price that the growers sell kava for has more almost tripled in Vanuatu and Fiji over the last three or four years. Tongan kava is up 300-400% over the same period.
Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
If anything it looks to me like Judd is somewhat understating the case. The price spikes in Fiji and Vanuatu and especially Tonga are astronomical as domestic consumption is going up at the same time as export demand and then there's weather crises damaging crops. Proportionally, very little of the price spike has shown up in US prices. The vendors are eating a lot of that spike, I would guess to keep customers and volume and cash flow going, in hopes of riding this out or buying time to readjust consumer expectations. It's hard for consumers to wrap their heads around something like this.
Of course, customers can somewhat offset this by more efficiently getting the most out of the kava they buy. I shudder to think of the good root I've wasted and thrown out as I was learning how to use it more efficiently.
Of course, customers can somewhat offset this by more efficiently getting the most out of the kava they buy. I shudder to think of the good root I've wasted and thrown out as I was learning how to use it more efficiently.
I could only find one grower willing to leave out stems. I can guarantee our Tongan is all good though.
We need another good health scare, I liked those post liver-scare kava prices.
Okay, maybe that wouldn't be good, but it really was much more reasonable to buy pounds of kava for $25-$40, which seems a lot closer to what it's actually worth. It's getting hard for me to justify spending $50-60 bucks a week on a pound of root that is almost always disappointingly weak, especially relative to it's price. It's a good thing Nangol Noble & Kava Supreme exist and that my local Samoan market still have their waka, as these are just about the only reliably strong and effective kavas for me these days. Even the Samoan market prices have jumped $27/lb. to $42/lb. over the last few years.
I'm currently on a 3 bag streak of kavas, including Hiwa, that are so weak that 12 Tbsp is less effective/satisfying than 6 Tbsp of Nangol Noble or my local market waka...so I guess I know what I'll be buying next...
Here's what I'm wondering, can we really expect the price to ever come down, or have we just created a new baseline kava price? I feel like the prices have less to do with any cyclone damage and more with the increased popularity, interest and awareness of kava and kava bars, coinciding with the revitalization of pharmaceutical interest. That's not to say that cyclone crop damage hasn't played any role, but when mature crops are replenished in 3-5 years, I doubt we'll see any significant drop in price. I think the word is out, there's money in kava again and farmers are surely aware of how much we're apparently willing to pay for it -- they're gonna want that price. I'm guessing price decreases will only happen after 10+ years, if ever. Depending on if the 'kava fad' fades out, or if it maintains a fairly good user base, higher than the base of 2003-2013. Hopefully I'm wrong and every farmer's new cash grab kava crop matures soon, leaving so much surplus of kava on the market that it'll have to come down to be competitive.
Okay, maybe that wouldn't be good, but it really was much more reasonable to buy pounds of kava for $25-$40, which seems a lot closer to what it's actually worth. It's getting hard for me to justify spending $50-60 bucks a week on a pound of root that is almost always disappointingly weak, especially relative to it's price. It's a good thing Nangol Noble & Kava Supreme exist and that my local Samoan market still have their waka, as these are just about the only reliably strong and effective kavas for me these days. Even the Samoan market prices have jumped $27/lb. to $42/lb. over the last few years.
I'm currently on a 3 bag streak of kavas, including Hiwa, that are so weak that 12 Tbsp is less effective/satisfying than 6 Tbsp of Nangol Noble or my local market waka...so I guess I know what I'll be buying next...
Here's what I'm wondering, can we really expect the price to ever come down, or have we just created a new baseline kava price? I feel like the prices have less to do with any cyclone damage and more with the increased popularity, interest and awareness of kava and kava bars, coinciding with the revitalization of pharmaceutical interest. That's not to say that cyclone crop damage hasn't played any role, but when mature crops are replenished in 3-5 years, I doubt we'll see any significant drop in price. I think the word is out, there's money in kava again and farmers are surely aware of how much we're apparently willing to pay for it -- they're gonna want that price. I'm guessing price decreases will only happen after 10+ years, if ever. Depending on if the 'kava fad' fades out, or if it maintains a fairly good user base, higher than the base of 2003-2013. Hopefully I'm wrong and every farmer's new cash grab kava crop matures soon, leaving so much surplus of kava on the market that it'll have to come down to be competitive.
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Asia or Central America farms would likely be safer from theft too, I'd like to see someone who truly cares about kava try something like that.
Anyway, would you say the average retail price for kava right now, per pound, is about $50 USD? If you were going to guess, what do you expect the average to be in 2020, 2023 & 2025 ? I'd like to see Judd's guesses too.
Here are some price trends, for any curious onlookers:
N@H Stone: 2007=$25, 2012=$45 2015=$46, 2017=$52
BKH Borogu: - - - - - - - - 2013=$28, 2015=$37, 2017=$49
KWK Loa Waka: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2015=$42, 2017 $49
GHK Mahakea: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2014=$46 2017 $54
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The price increases are purely supply and demand. There are multiple factors affecting the equation, including storms and drought and increased demand in the pharmaceutical and recreational markets. I too wonder if the prices will decrease once more plants mature. I mean, clearly people are willing to pay now. Knowing the approach to business that many growers have, I can't see them saying, "I have more kava now, so I'll drop the price out of the kindness of my heart." I think the only thing we can hope for is for basic economic principles to take over. They are putting a lot of plants in the ground, especially in Vanuatu and Fiji. If more sources causes a need to compete in the wholesale market, the first step will be to lower the prices, like you mentioned.
$50/lb. sounds about right. I feel like prices are plateauing now. The increases aren't sustainable and people are starting to question if kava is worth what us vendors need to sell it for. I think we're at the limit. I've spoken with a major Vanuatu distributor who told me that within a year, he expects prices to drop. He said that he didn't feel like they should drop too much though because growers need to feel that they're getting paid well so they'll continue to plant. A Fijian farm I work with keeps telling me that the price increases are temporary, and that they'll drop the price once supply increases. So, I guess I'm skeptical but hopeful that at least Vanuatu and Fiji prices will drop by maybe 20-30% in a couple years. And if Vanuatu and Fiji drop their prices, Samoa and Tonga will have to follow suit to compete.
Jerome
Kava Lover
I haven't purchased kava in a while due to budgetary restraints. It's been a while. I just started looking again and realized that I'm pretty much priced out! I really can't justify spending 60 bucks a pound on kava. I wish I could but it's just not possible.
I really wish I could grow it here. Hopefully the increased price will push farmers to not only produce more, but innovate growing methods. It would be amazing to see some more hardy, perhaps genetically modified, kava plants on the market.
I really wish I could grow it here. Hopefully the increased price will push farmers to not only produce more, but innovate growing methods. It would be amazing to see some more hardy, perhaps genetically modified, kava plants on the market.
Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
Last time I bought Best Fijian Kava Lawena it was $36/lb and still is. I drink it regularly. I bought 7 lbs in one order. Yes, the top shelf gourmet kavas are expensive, but you can still get drinkable kava for under $40 https://www.bestfijikava.com/view_details.php?id=18
Mood & Mind Vanuatu is still $37.28 on Amazon prime... http://a.co/gzO5HTA
I drink the two together, 1:1 mix, perfectly acceptable everyday drinking grog, go 5 or 6 washes and save the sediment from the glasses and jars to make kava powder. If I were just using kava for medicinal purposes I could drink this for about 50 cents a day and be fine.
yiki
Kava Enthusiast
After the price hike, i swore to drink less Kava, but i was amazed i continued to order hundreds of € worth. A very expensive habit, if not addiction. I mean, i can pause without big problems but especially in the summertime, it can be hard. Happy i won't be able to consume any kava in the coming months because it is getting too much with all the shipping through proxies to Europe on top of the already sky high prices.
I can't justify 5-10$ for a daily kava session, its too much. Especially since the kind of kava i seek is not available at the moment or perhaps only as a luxory gourmet kava which is out of the question price wise...completly out of the question.
I think other countries should start growing kavas so there is more competition. I know there is a culture around supporting the islands and whatnot. That's all fine, but i only want kava, not be charitable.
I can't justify 5-10$ for a daily kava session, its too much. Especially since the kind of kava i seek is not available at the moment or perhaps only as a luxory gourmet kava which is out of the question price wise...completly out of the question.
I think other countries should start growing kavas so there is more competition. I know there is a culture around supporting the islands and whatnot. That's all fine, but i only want kava, not be charitable.
Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
I try to factor everything in. With kava I spend zero on alcohol, half on food, nothing on black panties, far fewer silly impulse purchases. On the whole kava saves me money and pays for itself from the savings. Plus how does one put a price on what it did for me and for my wife? We would have gladly paid 10x what kava cost us for those effects.
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I'm the same way. The benefits of kava always outweigh the price for me. I can't say it's the best way to go if you're trying to be frugal, but I love kava
Dr.Krunk
Certified Quack
I guess I’m just lucky. Every month we have service tech meetings that consists of free breakfast and going over financials of our division. As long as we are making money, (which we have every month since I’ve been employed,) all of us service techs get gift cards that are at least $100 gift card. So I generally spend those on Kava! I also will buy out of pocket so I generally have tons of kava on hand at any given time.
Totally agree on Kava being worth it though even if I had to purchase it myself every time. It helps alleviate many let’s say, less conductive habits. Hell I never even had a drinking problem before but after drinking Kava there’s not even desire to drink. I still enjoy a small glass of scotch from time to time but never even have a remote desire to get tipsy let alone drunk. It’s just not fun at all anymore. I’d rather sit back to a few shells and enjoy my home theatre as I drift off into my imagination.
Totally agree on Kava being worth it though even if I had to purchase it myself every time. It helps alleviate many let’s say, less conductive habits. Hell I never even had a drinking problem before but after drinking Kava there’s not even desire to drink. I still enjoy a small glass of scotch from time to time but never even have a remote desire to get tipsy let alone drunk. It’s just not fun at all anymore. I’d rather sit back to a few shells and enjoy my home theatre as I drift off into my imagination.
Dr.Krunk
Certified Quack
But yes Kava certainly isn’t cheap, but I’m happy to just be able to enjoy it at all. It’s all mostly produced by families and groups that rely on Kava as their means to supporting themselves/family. Kava can only be grown successfully large scale in those specific regions from my understanding. I’m happy to allow those same people to continue growing this wonderful plant with the years of expertise handed down generation to generation. I’d love to be able to one day visit some of these farms, it would truly be a treat.
SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
I wouldn't mind the price increase as much if the quality also improved. I'm now paying much more and need to greatly increase the dosage while not getting the effects that I used to get. I've always needed high doses to get effects but now it's getting ridiculous. I've stopped purchasing anything that requires 12+ Tbsp a session (which includes most of my old favorites from KWK/GHK). At this point, I already know I'm wasting my money unless I'm buying Nangol, Kava Supreme or Vanuatu Select.
For a while, I've been thinking that it must just be me until I went back to an opened 4 year old bag of BKH Borogu that I stopped using back then because I considered it too weak. Even after being open with a now failed seal, it was much more potent and enjoyable than most of the purchases I've made in 2017.
For a while, I've been thinking that it must just be me until I went back to an opened 4 year old bag of BKH Borogu that I stopped using back then because I considered it too weak. Even after being open with a now failed seal, it was much more potent and enjoyable than most of the purchases I've made in 2017.
nickbroken
Kava Enthusiast
Eh kava prices suck now, have doubled in the last year, I get supply and demand, but I take it for anxiety. It's gonna get to the point where I just end up going to a doc for meds because it's incredibly cheaper. Such is life with tasty treats.
SelfBiasResistor
Persist for Resistance!
That is great advice for people who are new to kava or not really responding to any kava. But in cases where you use the same prep methods and only a few varieties are useful, it's more than that. I know it's very unpopular to negatively review most of the trusted vendors but we do need to hold them to the high standards that we are accustomed to and know they can provide.Good prep and consumption is the key to making your powder more effective. I use 40 or so g per session these days (used to use much more), because I use higher water temp, knead it for longer and then consume it a la Vanuatu, i.e. take two large servings, wait for the kava magic and then just top up with small servings. After 1-2 hours I eat a warm meal (which keep the kava going) and enjoy the rest of the evening blissfully relaxed.
Additionally, I think we should highly encourage all trusted vendors to have a batch number/date on all of their products. I know several do this but it would be good to have more onboard. We could also add a field in the review form for the batch number so we'll know how applicable the reviews we read are to the current product offerings.
Travis
Kava Enthusiast
I have read a few times people saying the quality should be better if the price has gone up. How exactly can the growers make the root better? Other than harvesting kava later than normal. Do they have a magic wand? If the overall product was somehow made better than normal, wouldn't that increase the price even further?
On a related note, there are a handful of pretty decent kavas for a much cheaper price. Personally I like dua na bilo for my broke go to.
On a related note, there are a handful of pretty decent kavas for a much cheaper price. Personally I like dua na bilo for my broke go to.
I think @SelfBiasResistor is my closest analogue on the Kava Forums, his opinions and experience about the kavas we drink almost always mirrors mine. I know some of it is our genetics and/or circumstantial experience, but at least 1/3rd of the problem is flat out weak kava(which is now expensive). I know there are many kava drinkers here who just naturally feel strong effects from smaller doses, or some drinkers who have never 'fully' felt what kava is capable of, and therefor don't have a fair reference point to compare their experience to(I used to be one). But, I think I can safely say, as someone who has traversed many different stages of kava consumption, dosage, frequency and expectation -- beginning in 2003 -- that the current era of retail kava is generally the weakest potency, compared to it's price.
I think it's important to note that most of it actually is proper good quality kava, and has nothing wrong with it, other than that it's kavalactone content/potency/effectiveness is diminished, while it's price has been going up and up and up. It's been especially noticeable since my trip to Vanuatu, which also happened to coincide with when Cyclone Pam hit, so I don't know if it has to do with experiencing how good fresh nakamal kava is, or the cyclone causing the international market to mostly receive the second-rate roots...or both...but almost ALL kava I've had since then fails to compare and RARELY even gets sufficiently close. That's 2 years of spending (probably)thousands of dollars on kava and almost NEVER experiencing a full kava buzz from the vast majority of it...even when I begin experimenting with the 10-12 Tbsp. range for one sitting.
When I was in Vanuatu, 8 out 10 experiences were full blown perfection(or near it), as good as you could ever expect from kava, and a couple of those even surpassed any of my known expectations (almost to the point of blissful incapacitation). The two lesser nights were on par with good but middle-of-the-road experiences that I'd have at home, not outstanding but acceptable. Even though the "batting average" wasn't quite that high for me with dry kava, at home, before Vanuatu, it was certainly much closer and occasionally on par with my nakamal experiences more frequently and for less money.
I don't mind paying 5-10 dollars per day on kava, if I choose, so long as it effects me the way that it should for that price. But for the last couple years, I rarely have an experience worth that money, yet I'm paying more than ever for the stuff. I can count on one hand the number of good memorable sessions I've had over the last couple years, the majority is just expensive semi-disappointment, that's just good enough to give me hope for the next bag. I can't remember the last time dry kava has made my ears ring, or my mouth numb or make me feel happily and calmly inebriated...or even a bit tipsy. Doe$n't happen.
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