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Public Service Announcement From Kavasseur

CactusKava

Phoenix, AZ
Kava Vendor
Well, to be fair it doesn't seem like there is really anyone to fight about it with anymore.
Even if another megathread happened, I think we've all learned so much about each other and the various viewpoints that we probably wouldn't have any virulent conversation like we've had before. We understand our differences of opinions, and that it's okay to have those differences. Those threads really show how passionate we are about this root, and without difficult discussions, new ideas for the better are hard to come by.

That said, I also wish @Deleted User would join us here more often.

Bula to our online kava circle ::happyshell::
 
D

Deleted User01

My position on Tudei has developed from being ambivalent about it, to defending it, and to now believing that it is better to tout the "Noble Only" cause until the evidence clears up. The fact that the countries who export Kava have banned Tudei from being exported gives me an ethical obligation to try my best to honor their intentions. If I continue to advocate for the use of Tudei, I could inadvertently be supporting a black market or dishonest practices. I don't want to do that.. Oh, and Tudei and Islam have nothing in common. Just in case you needed me to clear that up ;)
I think they are banning Tudei to show the world (Europe and the U.S.) that they being vigilant and responsible in only selling the safest type of Kava. It's an attempt to regain the foothold that Kava had in the 1990s when it was wildly popular before being demonized. I totally agree with that "marketing strategy". Somewhere along the way, Kava will have to battle big Pharma (again). They know (but won't admit), that Kava is damn good and safer then many of their sedatives (though there is a place for everything). Sorry Tudei, but you will be the whipping horse in this battle though in reality most of us could give a rat's ass about Tudei.

To get back to the warning that I received. You may take it with however many grains of salt that you wish. That the brown acid that is circulating around us isn't too good. It is suggested that you stay away from that. Of course it's your own trip. So be my guest, but please be advised that there is a warning on that one, ok?"
 

kastom_lif

Kava Lover
You check out the True Kava Web Site and see if there are any results there. Maybe you can send them/Deleted User an email and see what they/he says. True Kava has all the equipment to test kava and he was testing every sample sent to him. Now when you say "medicinal" is that code for "ceremonial" or perhaps "tudei".
"Medicinal" is the category name straight out of the Ni-Van Kava Act of 2002. Marang is a 245 chemotype... picture a regular drinking kava but with increased DHM.

The act has three categories: noble, medicinal and tudei. It doesn't explain the difference between a tudei and a medicinal. Some cultivars may be listed as medicinal for kastom reasons only (kind of like how mo'i was restricted to royalty only in Hawaii), whereas other super wild-ass kavas (Pentikos "bo", for instance) will make you sick as a dog but have medicinal uses where the hangover is part of the kastom cure.

Restricting the export of both medicinal and tudei makes sense. It's better for the small farmers, better for drinkers, and better for everybody in between.

Does it bug me that VKS had a bunch of "medicinal" kava exported? Meh. The listing for Marang is buried way down in the fine print. I'd take a heaping bowl of Marang over Palisi any day. I just wish they'd align their definition of noble with the Kava Act.

Jas wan opinion blo man we i stap insaed wan trak klosap long freswota.
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
'Medicinal' classification is basically noble, but typically has higher percentages of DHM and slightly more FKB than pure nobles, while still significantly less than Tudei. I often drink medicinal kava or mix it with pure nobles to increase the DHM.
 
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sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
How do you specify? Or do you just go around to tons of coas?
I had Deleted User test one of my main mystery wakas several times, it was often 245xxx...and when it wasn't, then the 5 was a 6 instead. Methysticin rather than DiHydroMethysticin. Then I had WOW! and was surprised at how heavy yet noble it appeared, it also got tested as 245xxx. I started looking at noble kava results of the one's that felt the most to my liking and took me to a deeper place, they mostly end up having DHM in the 4th position and sometimes the 3rd. Back in the day, Judd use to sell a Boroguru that was a staple for us heavy heads, it was also 245xxx.
 

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
I get the whole Tudei vs Noble argument, I read that thread where pretty much everyone sided with Deleted User. I understand The majority of this community think Noble is better over tudei and I don't disagree. At the end of the day however, I think any kava drinker should have the option to choose what he/she wants to consume, regardless what the almighty @Deleted User seems to think.
Do people actually like Tudei though? I remember one of our members (Violet?) got a kava that they didn't realize was Tudei and it did nothing but make her feel awful. Even back before people could accurately test for chemotypes Tudei was never considered a drinking kava because it made you feel like crap. The whole popularity in the states more than likely got started because uninformed kava drinkers were duped by shady growers into buying that fast growing, cheap to produce kava. It's one thing to like a stronger kava that begins with 24xxx, that could be considered noble, but most Tudeis start with DHK/DHM and kavain, the feel good kavalactone, is somewhere way down the line. The first two numbers of a chemotype are the majority of the lactones, others are trace.

While Judd is insistent on its nobility despite it failing to pass every accepted test (acetone, chemotype etc.), Koniak, a cultivar that begins with 25, has never given me a pleasant effect, just made me and uncomfortable kind of tired.
 
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Groggy

Kava aficionado
Admin
Do people actually like Tudei though? I remember one of our members (Violet?) got a kava that they didn't realize was Tudei and it did nothing but make her feel awful. Even back before people could accurately test for chemotypes Tudei was never considered a drinking kava because it made you feel like crap. The whole popularity in the states more than likely got started because uninformed kava drinkers were duped by shady growers into buying that fast growing, cheap to produce kava. It's one thing to like a stronger kava that begins with 24xxx, that could be considered noble, but most Tudeis start with DHK/DHM and kavain, the feel good kavalactone, is somewhere way down the line. The first two numbers of a chemotype are the majority of the lactones, others are trace.

While Judd is insistent on its nobility despite it failing to pass every accepted test (acetone, chemotype etc.), Koniak, a cultivar that begins with 25, has never given me a pleasant effect, just made me and uncomfortable kind of tired.
I can't speak for all people, do I like like tudei? Generally, no, I prefer noble kavas, last year when I joined KF, everything I read, prior to actually consuming kava lead me to believe that I should stay away from Tudei at all costs based on the obvious implication that tudei is looked as sub-par kava. That's exactly what I did, I steered clear of tudei, went straight to GHK, bought some instant Moi and went from there.
Since then, I have tried kava from just about every vendor from this website, including, CK, BKH, KWK, Squanch, Kavafied & luna Kava most recently. Now while most of these experiences have been wonderful, I did find some kavas among these vendors that in my opinion, didn't fit the "Noble" quality though stated otherwise. The point is not to single any vendor out, but rather I consumed these kavas that were apparently a mix of tudei and in some cases actually tudei. I did not realize this until after the fact.
I have experienced the kava "hangover" from both tudei (more noticeable) and from noble kavas, off course amount of consumption has a lot to do with it. Assuming that I drank the same amount from both noble vs tudei (which I did, as an experiment) I found both types gave me an equally unpleasant feeling the next day.
From these personal experiments, I deduced that generally speaking, I definitely prefer noble kavas, the quality is far superior. But I also came to the conclusion that tudei kava is not the "big bad monster" I once thought it was. Up until recently, I still had some tudei around. Will I buy tudei kava going forward? Maybe, realistically, I will stick to the kavas that gave me the best effects, because at the end of the day that's the point.
I simply believe people should be given the choice and my big "IF"....If it is labelled accordingly.
 

verticity

I'm interested in things
By the way, in case anyone was wondering, the "poll" that Trump cites is from the "Center for Security Policy" which the Southern Poverty Law Center considers to be an "extremist group." The Center for Security Policy is run by Frank Gaffney Jr., who believes the following:

" 'So pervasive now is the MB’s [Muslim Brotherhood’s] ‘civilization jihad’ within the U.S. government and civil institutions that a serious, sustained and rigorous investigation of the phenomenon by the legislative branch is in order. To that end, we need to establish a new and improved counterpart to the Cold War-era’s HUAC [House Un-American Activities Committee] and charge it with examining and rooting out anti-American – and anti-constitutional – activities that constitute an even more insidious peril than those pursued by communist Fifth Columnists fifty years ago.'
–column, Center for Security Policy, October 2011"

Seriously, he is a guy who thinks McCarthyism was just great, and wants to bring it back to root out crypto-Muslims in the government. That's who Donald J. Trump was citing in that clip.
 

verticity

I'm interested in things
I know I'm not supposed to talk about politics here, but I just felt I couldn't post that clip of Trump and make light of it without also saying something about the true agenda of the man.
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
@verticity I appreciate you addressing this topic, as a father of African born children and a friend of many Muslims. We are indeed living in dangerous times, at the cusp of jumping into an abyss of bloody, apocalyptic, and suicidal extreme nationalism. It truly is up to the American Left to protect our country from enemies foreign and domestic.
 

verticity

I'm interested in things
@verticity I appreciate you addressing this topic, as a father of African born children and a friend of many Muslims. We are indeed living in dangerous times, at the cusp of jumping into an abyss of bloody, apocalyptic, and suicidal extreme nationalism. It truly is up to the American Left to protect our country from enemies foreign and domestic.
I would just add that it is up to all Americans, "Left" and "Right" to do that...
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Well, I would agree with you in the sense that we need people to vote against Trump. But I really do think the American Left has a record of improving things in the country, where the American Right has a history of war, economic decline, and social, racial, gender, and environmental injustice.
 

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
I was (and still am) a big supporter of the Bernie Sanders movement. I have no qualms with Hillary Clinton and will be voting for her.

I'll officially endorse Hillary on this website as we get closer to November ;)
 

verticity

I'm interested in things
Well, I would agree with you in the sense that we need people to vote against Trump. But I really do think the American Left has a record of improving things in the country, where the American Right has a history of war, economic decline, and social, racial, gender, and environmental injustice.
Well, there is a difference between "moderate Right" (in favor of state's rights, against "big government", etc.) and "extreme Right" (racist, jingoistic, etc.) I personally am a Leftie like you, but I hope we can come together with the sane portions of the Right this election to do the right thing for the country.
 

yepimonfire

Kava Enthusiast
I would just add that it is up to all Americans, "Left" and "Right" to do that...
I know I'm not supposed to talk about politics here, but I just felt I couldn't post that clip of Trump and make light of it without also saying something about the true agenda of the man.
I'd be surprised if there was a large disagreement here. We are all peaceful kava drinkers after all.
 
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