Zac Imiola (Herbalist)
Kava Connoisseur
It was illegalized in Thailand because it interfered with opium taxes and sales. This was back in 1930s
Someone got me worried about k***** being mixed with kava... That's not common, right?!
- Thread starter Honolulusurfer88
- Start date
There is no "grey area" around tudei in Vanuatu. It is illegal to export it. The only loophole that exists (but may soon be closed) is that suppliers are allowed to export it if they get a specific request for it from their overseas clients. Several other island-states are drafting legislation to prohibit its exports or sales. E.g. in samoa they used to refer to tudei as "fake kava" and the government would even make official warnings and advise people how to detect it (by smell/taste) and would advise everyone to avoid it. Even New Zealand contemplated banning tudei back in 2004, but the government believed there were no reliable methods for detecting it and banning all kava would not have been justified by the mere desire to eradicate tudei.
Basically, no traditional kava drinking nation supports drinking tudei and most legislators seem to agree that its exports and sales are dangerous for the reputation and legal status of kava. This was even reflected in the very old documents submitted to my government 15 years ago when the government was contemplating amending kava legislation in light of the European concerns.
NZ actually has a pretty good kava legislation. All organic extracts, aerial parts and peelings are banned (sale, not possession or individual imports). Roots and water extracts are legal and treated as food. They wanted to add "noble", but again, didn't know of any reliable method of detecting it back in 2004
Basically, no traditional kava drinking nation supports drinking tudei and most legislators seem to agree that its exports and sales are dangerous for the reputation and legal status of kava. This was even reflected in the very old documents submitted to my government 15 years ago when the government was contemplating amending kava legislation in light of the European concerns.
NZ actually has a pretty good kava legislation. All organic extracts, aerial parts and peelings are banned (sale, not possession or individual imports). Roots and water extracts are legal and treated as food. They wanted to add "noble", but again, didn't know of any reliable method of detecting it back in 2004
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe. But it's undeniable that it's also a highly addictive substance. This is just scary: https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom
To be clear: I am a classical liberal. I believe that it is not the business of government to make men virtuous, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. But I think export regulations are a bit more tricky. E.g. NZ regulates the quality of our food exports because if one small vendor sells dodgy kiwifruits to Japan that make 20 people sick, Japan will impose a ban on all kiwifruit imports from New Zealand and thousands of people will lose their jobs. I see the South Pacific tudei legislation as something close to our food quality export rules. They know that if they allow tudei peelings exports they risk destroying the entire industry.
verticity
I'm interested in things
Right, the "grey area" I was referring to was in the US where it is legal to import, but that may change soon, since in may become illegal to export from Hawaii.
verticity
I'm interested in things
I'm all for peace. All I was trying to convey is that there is a place for discussion of K@ here, because it is served at kava bars (which I think we both agree is bad) and is frequently confused with kava.
There was a new person on here a while ago who thought she had kava. It turned out she actually had krat. We were able to educate her about the difference. I don't think that kind of discussion should be shut down. That was all I was saying.
Kojo Douglas
The Kavasseur
Well, I don't think we'd want people discussing their heroin, crack, meth, or marijuana preferences here. I think the original idea was to distance ourselves from Krat.
You are right in the sense that they often get bundled together as "natural highs." But we can try to disrupt that discourse by calling out Krat for what it is.
As for someone getting duped into doing Krat when they think it's Kava, that sounds pretty specific and anecdotal. I wouldn't take that as a marker of some kind of greater trend.
You are right in the sense that they often get bundled together as "natural highs." But we can try to disrupt that discourse by calling out Krat for what it is.
As for someone getting duped into doing Krat when they think it's Kava, that sounds pretty specific and anecdotal. I wouldn't take that as a marker of some kind of greater trend.
D
Deleted User01
@Kapmcrunk, I think everyone has put in their 2 cents on Krat. If you think this thread will attract those interested in Krat, then by all means delete this thread. Though the threads of people trying to quit Krat are probably ok. I heard the other day that North Carolina was getting ready to ban Krat and Mind and Mood (a seller of it) was trying to mobilize opposition. Good luck with all that. Nobody knows about it just like nobody knows about Kava. It's best to let K@ take the heat and let Kava keep a low profile. Slow and steady wins the race.
@Honolulusurfer88 I would go as far as to say you'd be hard pressed to find a kava bar that routinely slips, unsuspectingly, K@ into kava beverages. It wouldn't take much time at all before a person who has actually tasted kava tried theirs. It would be a dead giveaway. K@ tastes of highly astringent green tea, where kava tastes of anesthetic mud.
In respects to online kava purchased from vendors here, no. You wont find any other K herbs in that bag other than kava. It just wouldn't make sense. If a well established kava vendor were to suddenly start spiking all of thier kava with K@, I would ask them to enjoy the darkness and silence of having no money and no customers.
@Kavasseur is absolutely right. Our original intent was to distance ourselves from it. I think the climate has somewhat changed and what's different now is that we want those searching for Krat to stumble into our community. It's a fact that there will be a considerable number of people searching for alternatives due to these bans. Tennessee has banned K@ for years if I'm not mistaken, and we also have an opoid addiction epidemic of cosmic proportions. What I'm saying is, I pray these people who suddenly have K@ pulled from their hands that they find kava. There are so so many downright terrible K@ alternatives, and I can think of one that starts with H and ends with death that's a common alternative when absolutely desperate.
I say let's help them find kava, which is why threads like these are okay. What's not okay is discussing K@ in the context of using just K@ to achieve K@'s effects. Like @violet said, you can start a conversation message with the person, and we'll be none the wiser. When we convey our vision of kava, and share with each other about kava we carry a respect for the root that can be traced through tradition thousands of years old. We ask that the same respect for the root be shown here by only asking questions in conjuncture with kava. However, this board has been actually rather impeccable in the way we conduct ourselves in regards to this topic. So, speak openly about the ways in which you relate to kava. We never know who we help.
In respects to online kava purchased from vendors here, no. You wont find any other K herbs in that bag other than kava. It just wouldn't make sense. If a well established kava vendor were to suddenly start spiking all of thier kava with K@, I would ask them to enjoy the darkness and silence of having no money and no customers.
@Kavasseur is absolutely right. Our original intent was to distance ourselves from it. I think the climate has somewhat changed and what's different now is that we want those searching for Krat to stumble into our community. It's a fact that there will be a considerable number of people searching for alternatives due to these bans. Tennessee has banned K@ for years if I'm not mistaken, and we also have an opoid addiction epidemic of cosmic proportions. What I'm saying is, I pray these people who suddenly have K@ pulled from their hands that they find kava. There are so so many downright terrible K@ alternatives, and I can think of one that starts with H and ends with death that's a common alternative when absolutely desperate.
I say let's help them find kava, which is why threads like these are okay. What's not okay is discussing K@ in the context of using just K@ to achieve K@'s effects. Like @violet said, you can start a conversation message with the person, and we'll be none the wiser. When we convey our vision of kava, and share with each other about kava we carry a respect for the root that can be traced through tradition thousands of years old. We ask that the same respect for the root be shown here by only asking questions in conjuncture with kava. However, this board has been actually rather impeccable in the way we conduct ourselves in regards to this topic. So, speak openly about the ways in which you relate to kava. We never know who we help.
RigidMayonaise
Kava Curious
the vendors on here will never sell you anything but the highest quality root. and from a scientific standpoint kava and K@ together shouldnt cause any harmful reactions, although its best not to use K@ at all because of addictive potential. i used to take regular small doses of K@ and never thought of it as too strong. then one day i over dosed (took about 15 grams of powdered bali, in a tea but the plant material was consumed as well) i felt as if i was dying, and i now understand what those poor sods that od on painkillers go through, intense sweating even though your body temp is very cold to the touch, a sensation that my head was spinning extremely fast which lasted for hours, and not to mention i walked home from a friends housee after this so i puked in the street about 4 times to where i was dry heaving bile each time. i could only limp along because the uneasy feeeling in my stomach was too much, i got home puked twice more, smoked a bowl of some quality herbs and passed out. luckily i woke up feeling alright the next day. moral of the story, stay away from all opiates, even K@, and only get kava from vendors approved by the forum, and you cant go wrong 