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Dermo Questions

nabanga

nabanga

Kava Enthusiast
I usually get it coming on after 2-3 weeks of 100-150g (8-10 heaped tablespoons) every night (those periods I've only drank say 4x a week I never get dermo or any negative effects). If I ignore the onset signs of red eyes and itchiness and keep pushing it, my face shrivels up like an 80 year old - paper skin - and I can barely open my watery eyes during daylight hours from the dazzle. If I don't push it too far then 2-3 days off with lots of water can get me back to normal but if I've ignored the onset signs and carried on drinking for a few more nights after that, then it can take up to a week to get back to normal hydration and sight.

This only effects me this way with using dry kava - I drank fresh green to excess every night for 4 years at one time and just got a bit of dry scaly skin that went away with coconut oil - no watery sore eyes or shrivelled up face skin at all.
 
S

Summer

Since I have switched to mostly instant kava, I have not noticed dermo much. Don't get me wrong - my skin is dry and flaky, but no other effects. I also drink kava in smaller amounts throughout the day as compared to one larger session, but overall a decent amount (and just about everyday).
 
HeadHodge

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
Summer said:
Since I have switched to mostly instant kava, I have not noticed dermo much. Don't get me wrong - my skin is dry and flaky, but no other effects. I also drink kava in smaller amounts throughout the day as compared to one larger session, but overall a decent amount (and just about everyday).
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I might have enough extract socked away to try using that exclusively for a little while. I'd be interested if doing that would help keep the dermo away.
 
Squanch72

Squanch72

Kava Vendor
I wonder if the amount of water you drink while drinking yerba mate is the reason it helps with dermo. Yerba mate gives enough flavor to water for me that it sort of tricks me into drinking much more water than I would in a normal day.
 
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Yeah, some of these reactions seem rather extreme. I get dark urine when I drink Kava. I'd say make sure you are drinking enough water and a bit of salt. At least twice as much water as Kava! But if you are getting dermopathy that makes you "look like an 80 year old" then you should either consider an intolerance to Kava or a serious lack of hydration.
 
sɥɐʞɐs

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
@Kavasseur do you ever drink 8-10 Tbsp nightly, for weeks, months or years at a time ?
What is your typical dosage/frequency...how often do you take breaks and how long are your breaks ? It must have been pretty sporadic in Africa, which would definitely keep the dermopathy at bay.

What I find noteworthy, is that @nabanga & @nemo both of whom have spent a lot of time in Vanuatu, drinking FRESH kava with Ni-Vans, also both say that the severity and frequency of dermopathy are reduced significantly with fresh-only consumption -- and notice a definite increase when they switch to dry kava.
 
Groggy

Groggy

Kava aficionado
Admin
sɥɐʞɐs said:
@Kavasseur do you ever drink 8-10 Tbsp nightly, for weeks, months or years at a time ?
What is your typical dosage/frequency...how often do you take breaks and how long are your breaks ? It must have been pretty sporadic in Africa, which would definitely keep the dermopathy at bay.

What I find noteworthy, is that @nabanga & @nemo both of whom have spent a lot of time in Vanuatu, drinking FRESH kava with Ni-Vans, also both say that the severity and frequency of dermopathy are reduced significantly with fresh-only consumption -- and notice a definite increase when they switch to dry kava.
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If only fresh root was readily available in the states...
 
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
There shouldn't be any change in the chemistry when Kava root is dried. The active components are the same. Can anyone confirm this?
 
sɥɐʞɐs

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
Kavasseur said:
There shouldn't be any change in the chemistry when Kava root is dried. The active components are the same. Can anyone confirm this?
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Anecdotal evidence only, as far as I'm aware.

I know it seems like kava should be kava, not matter what form -- However, heat can change chemicals. For example, fresh ginger contains a chemical called 'gingerol', but when heated and dried the gingerol converts to shogaol.

Another possibility could be because the fresh kava is stronger and less particle filled than dry kava.
We know from experience that toss-n-wash or frequent particle-heavy doses of dry kava brings on dermo quicker and harsher. With fresh being stronger and consisting of less sizable particles, it allows for you to achieve desired kava effects with less overall consumption.
 
Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
It has nothing to do with the chemical composition of the fresh vs. Dried.
Fresh ginger has different effects than dried because of energetics . The same is for kava... kava is drying and therefore will gradually dry you out. The energetics of fresh kava are obviously way less dry. This plays a huge role.

Maybe there is a chemical difference but just use intuition in thinking about dry kava how your body reacts thinking about it vs. Fresh kava .
 
nabanga

nabanga

Kava Enthusiast
Kavasseur said:
There shouldn't be any change in the chemistry when Kava root is dried. The active components are the same. Can anyone confirm this?
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It's down to the small particles in dry kava. Even with multiple seives with a fine stocking (which I do) there is inevitably a settlement of fine particles which get stirred back into the mix. Fresh kava does not have this at least not to the same extent.
I believe these fines in dry kava trad prep somehow sit in you stomach and continue to dehydrate you for some hours after drinking, such that even if you are drinking 2-3 litres water during the day between evening sessions, you never truly get hydrated. During your next session the level of dehydration just picks up from the previous night and continues.
I have no idea why this should be so, but the results on the incidence of dermo/dehydration from drinking dry vs fresh have been pretty consistent over 20+ years of enjoying the root.
 
S

Summer

I agree with @nabanga about the sediment. Even when I used the Aluball it would jack me up pretty quickly. I had like seepage in my ear canals and a nasty reaction all over my chest. Now, this could be a personal sensitivity also because I know many people use the Aluball frequently and have no adverse reactions. Additionally, even if/when I drink traditional prep now, and strain and strain and strain, I tend to get noticeable dermo-like issues and eye sensitivity, etc. quite rapidly.

I don't know how the instant compares to fresh root, but I have noticed a significant reduction in negative symptoms since switching.
 
Edward

Edward

Aluballin' in the UK
Kava Vendor
Jr. Woodchuck said:
At HeadHodge's suggestion I'm making this thread for extended thoughts/conversation around dermo and how to best deal with it.

Does anyone have recommendations as far as how to best deal with dermo? Specifically, how many days in a row can one drink kava, and how many days are ideal for a break period to allow the dermo to subside?

I've read Amlactin is the favored treatment once the dermo gets bad. Any other suggestions for treatments?

Basically I'm interested in your personal ritual, and how you live with dermo creeping at the edge of town all the time.
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Since I've been taking coconut oil capsules I've had no dermo at all and I was starting to get it pretty bad. I'm still drinking the same quantities and types so it must be to do with the oil. I no longer drink alcohol so I drink kava every day now with no breaks.
 
HeadHodge

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
Edward said:
Since I've been taking coconut oil capsules I've had no dermo at all and I was starting to get it pretty bad. I'm still drinking the same quantities and types so it must be to do with the oil. I no longer drink alcohol so I drink kava every day now with no breaks.
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do you have a link to the capss?
 
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