Former Hawaiian Kava Scam
- Thread starter Islandtime
- Start date
- Status
Zaphod
Kava Lover
If out of this whole mess Chris @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava and Judd @Bula Kava House made up then it might have all been worth it. I don't know all the history, except what I see as minor disagreements in KF, but I think we can all agree that two of the major players in the US kava industry coming together could only make the kava market stronger and more durable. A good solid foundation to build a real US based Kava Association that supported both growers and importers, kava education, research, and community outreach. An association that could step in and inform local boards and business about what Kava really is before they get some crazy ideas in their head. I hope to one day see both of you either in the fields of Hawaii, or at the bar in Portland raising a shell and then we will all know the true power of kava. Bula!
Kavafied
Kava Vendor
Yes, Mauna Loa is the biggest land mass on earth and growing, plenty of room to farm Kava. Tonga on the other hand is the ,smallest in terms of land mass, Kava growing nation. When you're limited in space and resources you have to get creative. Another reason IMO the Tongans were the most technologically advanced country back in the day, they were forced to be. The way we plant Kava in Tonga is very different than Hawaii, the cultivating Kava farming techniques passed down from my grandfather we're engineered over time to maximize yield from every Kava plant which makes sense when the island you are living on is only 30 sq / miles
Señor Chuggs
Friend of Kava
He said he has not decided whether or not to take "actions". Its a bit of a stretch to call that a threat. Its much less a threat than some of the posts on this forum asking for screenshots and actually seeking legal council.
The dude has a blog. Its not a major news outlet. As much as I'm not a fan of the bickery ranting tone of some of the recent activity... I still think he has the right to speak his mind. I think the best defence, if his claims are indeed believed to be baseless, would be to just ignore this for time being and let the drama fizzle out. There is certainly enough broad support for GHK and TK on this forum to uphold their credibility.
kilakila
Kava keeps me going.
I tend to agree. Trouble is, Doug seems to have emotional relapses and something will come up again in a few months and people will get upset again. You can only cry wolf so many times. Giving him the benefit of the doubt one more time - he's in Ghana, with his family. It must be tough to have to keep leaving them for so long, and maybe that's one of the reasons why this strange personality pops up. I don't think he'll be given any more chances by this forum though, and I completely understand that. Let him do what he wants, get his own forum running, his own podcast. And hopefully he will tire of arguing about the official stances/positions taken here.
D
Deleted User01
Here is what his post sounds like to me: "I have evidence that GHK and TK have formed a secret society to take over the world of Kava and they have already killed many people in their ruthless attempt to pull off this coup. I am currently in a secret hiding place in Ghana trying to evade them. However .... I can't give you the hard evidence until you are either cleared by the CIA, the FBI, or the BBC. Oops, gotta go because I can see they are tracking my IP address with their death ray Satellites."
We all know that Doug posted a new blog about be and I wanted to break it down to cover it in detail, here it is---
I want to take the time to address some issues that Doug brought up in his most recent post on his blog. I will go part by part to make it easy to address all the topics.
Doug--Yesterday (Thursday 13/7) I made some statements based on information I had received about Gourmet Hawaiian Kava.
Yes Doug did say a lot about GHK and others like TK and the kava forums, the things he said was lies and not warranted at all, with no proof to back up his claims, maybe that is why he deleted the video and his blog post about it.
Doug--There have been a constellation of sources that have noticed what look like inaccurate claims by Gourmet Hawaiian Kava and their project on the Big Island of Hawaii.
He says that he (Doug) and a constellation of sources have seen something that makes them think I make inaccurate claims. yet he does not mention these claims so I can defend myself against them, notice he says "what look like inaccurate claims" If he actually had proof then it would not look like it, there would be proof but he has yet to show us any proof of any of his accusations.
I am well respected in the kava community here in Hawaii and abroad, many people have seen my kava farms and that includes locals, guests from the mainland even kava forum members and even scientists that work with kava, in fact Dr. Schmidt will be coming to visit me again next year.
I have been a prominent kava grower and expert in Hawaii for over 30 years.
Doug---Knowing these sources to be reliable, I jumped the gun and wrote an editorial that went too far verbally in criticizing Gourmet Hawaiian Kava.
Again he mentions reliable sources but never provides any evidence to prove his false accusations, and yes he did jump the gun when he wrote his first blog about all of this and then deleted it.
Doug---However, my intention was to start a conversation about possible inappropriate relationships between a Kava testing company and this Kava vendor. I was also inquiring into allegations that he imports and improperly labels Vanuatu Kava as Hawaiian Kava.
So here he says that I have an inappropriate relation with a kava testing company, he means True Kava. This is unfounded and simply not true, do all the other members of TK have this too? No they don't and neither do I. I ask Doug to show us how it is not appropriate.
Then Doug says that I import kava from Vanuatu and I label it as Hawaiian. I know that I have been in the kava industry for 30 years and Doug is only 36 years old now so I would say that I have had time to try kava from all over the Pacific where it grows and I can tell you that there is no way I can pass off Vanuatu kava for Hawaiian, there is a different flavor that you can not mistake
And again he has no proof of his accusations. In his first blog about this, the one he deleted he said I import hundreds of kilos of kava from Vanuatu, this is so false it is ridiculous. If this were true then he should be able to prove it but he can't because this is not true, it is simple as that.
Doug--- As this inquiry expands and more information is forthcoming, I will leave it to my readers to decide what to believe. I made it clear in my statement that these were alleged infractions and never claimed that he was guilty. I didn’t libel or slander Gourmet Hawaiian Kava.
I would love to see the forth coming information that proves all these bad things I am doing but it will never happen because it is not true. Then Doug says that he made it clear that these are alleged infractions and he is not making any claims but he is making claims with no proof and that is slanderous, this is why I have contacted my lawyer so we can put a stop to Doug's nonsense.
Doug---I will still move forward with starting a new forum, as I and my family received several threats from members on the current forum, including the owner of Gourmet Hawaiian Kava saying “he [meaning myself] is toast.” I don’t take these threats lightly. The threat caused me great anguish as I was promised to be “sued into oblivion.”
Here Doug says he will start his own forum and that is his right, I wish him well in that endeavor.
Then he mentions threats, well when he says slanderous things about me and I say I am going to sue him that is not a threat that is a legitimate reaction to protect my good name and to stop the false accusations and slanderous remarks. And it is my right as a US citizen to take him to court to settle issues like this. There is no threat, this is what you get when you say things that are not true Doug. If you feel threatened then don't say things like that.
Doug---I do suffer from PTSD from some experiences I had in South Sudan – including seeing people including women and children raped and murdered. This was also deployed as a way of attacking me and my service to humanity. I was very saddened to see this behavior come from fellow Kava drinkers. To see war and come out of it with psychological issues is not a joke– or a tactic to be used in an online debate.
Well Doug, I am sorry that you suffer from PTSD and in my posts to you I mentioned that if you do have PTSD that you should seek help for it, I never made fun of it, I never debated it, in fact I made it clear that if this was the case that you should seek help, for your own good, I never made fun of you having PTSD not did I ever doubt it. I know people with PTSD and when they start acting like you have been then they themselves know enough to go and get some help. PTSD is real and you can not cope with it by yourself, you need to seek professional help.
Doug---It was completely inappropriate, abusive, and is currently causing me great mental anguish. I have not decided whether to take actions against the people that brought this up. Nonetheless, some of the anger and passion I put into the piece I wrote about Gourmet Hawaiian Kava stems from some of my lingering psychological issues.
Nothing inappropriate was said about you and your PTSD so the anguish you feel could be from your false accusations or something else but it is not me, I never put your PTSD down or made fun of your situation. Again, plese show proof of this.
Doug---My intention was not to defame anyone or cause damages to them. This has already been done by them themselves, such as when they threatened to attack another vendor with a “samurai sword” and “chop them into pieces.” Threatening to murder a competitor is hardly noble (no pun intended). Let us also not forget the extensive paper trail of attacks on the quality of others vendors’ Kava and integrity. I am hardly the only one to engage in extravagant language when it comes to the Kava world.
It sound like your directing this at me (GHK), this is crazy, I never threatened anyone with a Samurai sword much less saying I am going to chop them into pieces. This is another false accusation with no proof, again I say, no proof and I would never threaten to murder someone.
If there is a paper trail of attacks on the quality of others vendors’ Kava and integrity then you should be able to provide that proof but we have yet to see any proof from anything you have said.
Looking more and more like slander to me, murder is a strong accusation.
Doug---It is unfortunate that in this community there is so much angst. Kava is a drink of peace. However, I don’t believe it is the responsibility of myself and my family to bear the cross for the wrongdoings of members of the wider community.
It is unfortunate that all of this is going on but you were the one who started it all. So your responsible for the way your feeling now.
Doug---And before I close, I’d like to propose a simple solution to some of the confusion. A decade or so ago, Google Earth was invented. I use Google Earth to map my own cocoa plots in Ghana, West Africa. I have to struggle with horrible resolution. The resolution in Hawaii, however, could get us right into the mosaics of heart-shaped Hiwa leaves. Gourmet Hawaiian Kava could simply show us these fields of diverse and wonderful Kava on Google Earth and the debate would be settled. So far, I haven’t been able to locate an address or area on Google Earth that shows a 20 acre, well-maintained Kava farm. I don’t always get brilliant ideas, but I feel pretty good about this one. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
This will never happen, I will never show you (Doug) my kava farms, yes I have more than one.
The people who have already seen my farms and my kava and the ones who will come to see it in the future is proof enough for everyone and I do not need to prove to myself what I already know. I walk through my kava farms every day. The debate of weather I have a kava farm or not is only in your mind. The reality, is, in everyone else's mind and the reality is true, I have kava farms.
So to sum things up, all we have from Doug is words, no proof and nothing to back up his slanderous accusations. I really feel bad for Doug, to be so sick in the mind with his PTSD to come up with stuff like this toward me, True Kava and the Kava Forums.
Please Doug seek some help and get better. Your not the Doug that most people have come to know and love. These people love your kava reviews and now they are concerned about your heath. Please seek some help, get better and get back to reviewing kava.
Most of all, please stop all the accusations, I do not want to have to force you to stop by legal means but if you keep it up I will be forced to because you still spew out accusations with no proof.
Aloha to all.
Chris
I want to take the time to address some issues that Doug brought up in his most recent post on his blog. I will go part by part to make it easy to address all the topics.
Doug--Yesterday (Thursday 13/7) I made some statements based on information I had received about Gourmet Hawaiian Kava.
Yes Doug did say a lot about GHK and others like TK and the kava forums, the things he said was lies and not warranted at all, with no proof to back up his claims, maybe that is why he deleted the video and his blog post about it.
Doug--There have been a constellation of sources that have noticed what look like inaccurate claims by Gourmet Hawaiian Kava and their project on the Big Island of Hawaii.
He says that he (Doug) and a constellation of sources have seen something that makes them think I make inaccurate claims. yet he does not mention these claims so I can defend myself against them, notice he says "what look like inaccurate claims" If he actually had proof then it would not look like it, there would be proof but he has yet to show us any proof of any of his accusations.
I am well respected in the kava community here in Hawaii and abroad, many people have seen my kava farms and that includes locals, guests from the mainland even kava forum members and even scientists that work with kava, in fact Dr. Schmidt will be coming to visit me again next year.
I have been a prominent kava grower and expert in Hawaii for over 30 years.
Doug---Knowing these sources to be reliable, I jumped the gun and wrote an editorial that went too far verbally in criticizing Gourmet Hawaiian Kava.
Again he mentions reliable sources but never provides any evidence to prove his false accusations, and yes he did jump the gun when he wrote his first blog about all of this and then deleted it.
Doug---However, my intention was to start a conversation about possible inappropriate relationships between a Kava testing company and this Kava vendor. I was also inquiring into allegations that he imports and improperly labels Vanuatu Kava as Hawaiian Kava.
So here he says that I have an inappropriate relation with a kava testing company, he means True Kava. This is unfounded and simply not true, do all the other members of TK have this too? No they don't and neither do I. I ask Doug to show us how it is not appropriate.
Then Doug says that I import kava from Vanuatu and I label it as Hawaiian. I know that I have been in the kava industry for 30 years and Doug is only 36 years old now so I would say that I have had time to try kava from all over the Pacific where it grows and I can tell you that there is no way I can pass off Vanuatu kava for Hawaiian, there is a different flavor that you can not mistake
And again he has no proof of his accusations. In his first blog about this, the one he deleted he said I import hundreds of kilos of kava from Vanuatu, this is so false it is ridiculous. If this were true then he should be able to prove it but he can't because this is not true, it is simple as that.
Doug--- As this inquiry expands and more information is forthcoming, I will leave it to my readers to decide what to believe. I made it clear in my statement that these were alleged infractions and never claimed that he was guilty. I didn’t libel or slander Gourmet Hawaiian Kava.
I would love to see the forth coming information that proves all these bad things I am doing but it will never happen because it is not true. Then Doug says that he made it clear that these are alleged infractions and he is not making any claims but he is making claims with no proof and that is slanderous, this is why I have contacted my lawyer so we can put a stop to Doug's nonsense.
Doug---I will still move forward with starting a new forum, as I and my family received several threats from members on the current forum, including the owner of Gourmet Hawaiian Kava saying “he [meaning myself] is toast.” I don’t take these threats lightly. The threat caused me great anguish as I was promised to be “sued into oblivion.”
Here Doug says he will start his own forum and that is his right, I wish him well in that endeavor.
Then he mentions threats, well when he says slanderous things about me and I say I am going to sue him that is not a threat that is a legitimate reaction to protect my good name and to stop the false accusations and slanderous remarks. And it is my right as a US citizen to take him to court to settle issues like this. There is no threat, this is what you get when you say things that are not true Doug. If you feel threatened then don't say things like that.
Doug---I do suffer from PTSD from some experiences I had in South Sudan – including seeing people including women and children raped and murdered. This was also deployed as a way of attacking me and my service to humanity. I was very saddened to see this behavior come from fellow Kava drinkers. To see war and come out of it with psychological issues is not a joke– or a tactic to be used in an online debate.
Well Doug, I am sorry that you suffer from PTSD and in my posts to you I mentioned that if you do have PTSD that you should seek help for it, I never made fun of it, I never debated it, in fact I made it clear that if this was the case that you should seek help, for your own good, I never made fun of you having PTSD not did I ever doubt it. I know people with PTSD and when they start acting like you have been then they themselves know enough to go and get some help. PTSD is real and you can not cope with it by yourself, you need to seek professional help.
Doug---It was completely inappropriate, abusive, and is currently causing me great mental anguish. I have not decided whether to take actions against the people that brought this up. Nonetheless, some of the anger and passion I put into the piece I wrote about Gourmet Hawaiian Kava stems from some of my lingering psychological issues.
Nothing inappropriate was said about you and your PTSD so the anguish you feel could be from your false accusations or something else but it is not me, I never put your PTSD down or made fun of your situation. Again, plese show proof of this.
Doug---My intention was not to defame anyone or cause damages to them. This has already been done by them themselves, such as when they threatened to attack another vendor with a “samurai sword” and “chop them into pieces.” Threatening to murder a competitor is hardly noble (no pun intended). Let us also not forget the extensive paper trail of attacks on the quality of others vendors’ Kava and integrity. I am hardly the only one to engage in extravagant language when it comes to the Kava world.
It sound like your directing this at me (GHK), this is crazy, I never threatened anyone with a Samurai sword much less saying I am going to chop them into pieces. This is another false accusation with no proof, again I say, no proof and I would never threaten to murder someone.
If there is a paper trail of attacks on the quality of others vendors’ Kava and integrity then you should be able to provide that proof but we have yet to see any proof from anything you have said.
Looking more and more like slander to me, murder is a strong accusation.
Doug---It is unfortunate that in this community there is so much angst. Kava is a drink of peace. However, I don’t believe it is the responsibility of myself and my family to bear the cross for the wrongdoings of members of the wider community.
It is unfortunate that all of this is going on but you were the one who started it all. So your responsible for the way your feeling now.
Doug---And before I close, I’d like to propose a simple solution to some of the confusion. A decade or so ago, Google Earth was invented. I use Google Earth to map my own cocoa plots in Ghana, West Africa. I have to struggle with horrible resolution. The resolution in Hawaii, however, could get us right into the mosaics of heart-shaped Hiwa leaves. Gourmet Hawaiian Kava could simply show us these fields of diverse and wonderful Kava on Google Earth and the debate would be settled. So far, I haven’t been able to locate an address or area on Google Earth that shows a 20 acre, well-maintained Kava farm. I don’t always get brilliant ideas, but I feel pretty good about this one. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
This will never happen, I will never show you (Doug) my kava farms, yes I have more than one.
The people who have already seen my farms and my kava and the ones who will come to see it in the future is proof enough for everyone and I do not need to prove to myself what I already know. I walk through my kava farms every day. The debate of weather I have a kava farm or not is only in your mind. The reality, is, in everyone else's mind and the reality is true, I have kava farms.
So to sum things up, all we have from Doug is words, no proof and nothing to back up his slanderous accusations. I really feel bad for Doug, to be so sick in the mind with his PTSD to come up with stuff like this toward me, True Kava and the Kava Forums.
Please Doug seek some help and get better. Your not the Doug that most people have come to know and love. These people love your kava reviews and now they are concerned about your heath. Please seek some help, get better and get back to reviewing kava.
Most of all, please stop all the accusations, I do not want to have to force you to stop by legal means but if you keep it up I will be forced to because you still spew out accusations with no proof.
Aloha to all.
Chris
D
Deleted User01
Nice reply chris. When I read the sentence about Google Earth it brought to mind the article you wrote about Kava Rustlers. How you were deputized to help protect some of the old Great Stands of Wild Hawaiian Kava. Some of those plants as big as a pickup truck. Then I thought, why the hell would you give anybody the coordinates to your kava farms? You might as well let the Rustlers in the front gate and get it over with.
Truthfully that is exactly why he will never get the coordinators, I keep my largest farms a strict secret as to there location, very few people know about it and that is why I still have them and no theft problems.
It is a bigger problem than people might think, Pinner Creek Organics used to grow kava but they stopped last year because the thieves would keep stealing his kava. If you don't have some one living on the property there is a good chance that the kava will be stolen. The only kava here in Hawaii that does not get stolen and is in the open for all to see is the ISA, nobody except Doug wants that stuff.
Aloha.
Chris
D
Deleted User01
I remember Pinner Creek Organics back in the day but I never bought anything from them. I guess they never had a chance to get any momentum going. Too bad.
Just for the record, Chris has been talking about combating people stealing kava for years. If this seems convenient for an excuse as to why he can't show the coordinates, it's actually a real one. Kava plants are massively valuable....in fact, how about you let me have those coordinates and let me check them out personally ;-) j/k I'd probably never get the first one out. I'd give up half way through digging and buy some instead.
D
Deleted User01
Here is another of my favorite articles. Man, I would love to go on a treasure hunt looking for kava.
I bought some fresh kava from Pinner Creeks. Still have the corm in the freezer actually. He seemed like a really nice guy who was super into organic farming. We spoke about kava for a while, and even had one of his kids in a science fair project featuring kava. Just from my phone call with him Dean seemed like a down to earth guy.
Krunkie McKrunkface
Kava Connoisseur
This is the thing that most strikes me as odd. Vanuatu kava is distinct, it looks and tastes and feels like Vanuatu kava. And Hawaiian 'awa is distinct, it looks and tastes and feels like Hawaiian 'awa. They look, taste, feel, and chemotype totally different. No? I mean almost no similarities, unless it's all medicinal grade to be used for extraction into supplements. But as medium grind? for drinking? High class premium gourmet root? Couldn't virtually anyone spot the substitution right away? I mean,even a newbie-ish person? To risk everything on an obvious forgery sounds kind of.... far-fetched.
I'm trad prepping some awa as I write this, it looks distinctly Hawaiian, like no Vanuatu kava I've had or heard of or seen pictures of. But if there is some Vanuatu root like this, please tell me where I can buy some. I would have no problem with buying it from a vendor in Hawaii who had imported it for resale.
Hay Kapm, I can give them to you but then I would have to chain you to one of my largest kava plants and you would have to chew your way out.
, then you would be too krunked to remember where it is. No but really, I know your planning on coming to Hawaii and I would be honored for you to come and see my kava. For you I will harvest a fresh one and we will drink some fresh root.
Aloha.
Chris
Kavashua
Mmmm Kava
This is so true, I have yet to try Awa but on two occasions I can remember trying an obscure brand that was marketed as a Fijian and upon opening and seeing the difference I could tell it was a Vanuatu variety and after tasting it was obvious that I was not drinking Fijian
- Status