What is Isa?

[kastom_lif]

I've heard really good things about kelaï. Supposed to be fairly heady for a ni-Van kava.

Before cyclone Pam I was lucky to drink some ahouia. It's really good stuff, too. Since Winston, the Fiji kava industry has bounced back pretty well, where's the Tafea kava?

 

[verticity]

...
What I don't understand are why a handful of kava users would fight so hard for this stuff when there is noble kava of equal and better effects available. It doesn't make sense except as a "you're not the boss of me!" reaction.
...

Don't underestimate the power of the "you're not the boss of me" argument for many Americans. Many people here are extremely cynical about any regulation of things like kava after living through the failed "war on drugs" for the past 50 years here, with it's overblown scare tactics. It can be easy for people to misunderstand the legitimate steps that have been taken by exporting countries to stop exporting tudei as akin to "reefer madness" type hysteria, when in reality it is just a pragmatic step to improve the legal status and image of kava worldwide by discouraging vendors from selling low quality kava that tends to make people sick and hung over.

 

[kastom_lif]

You know, I've NEVER seen kava from Erromango.

It's a huge island. Good soil. Close to local markets on Tanna and export markets on Efate, and nobody has been eaten in over 150 years.

 

[verticity]

You know, I've NEVER seen kava from Erromango.

It's a huge island. Good soil. Close to local markets on Tanna and export markets on Efate, and nobody has been eaten in over 150 years.

Hey, they apologized for that:

Sorry we ate your great-great grandpa: Island cannibals apologise for killing missionary 170 years ago

(Now if Europe would apologize for blackbirding they might be even...)

 

[kastom_lif]

Sandalwood exploitation was killing man Erro even before blackbirders showed up. Ironically, the sandalwood raiders came from Hawaii, Rotuma and Tonga (I wonder if Doug would say that's not colonialism?)

Anyway, after a couple years suffering through slave raids, sandalwood thieves and foreign diseases, some missionaries arrived. They were the first non-asshole foreigners to ever arrive. Naturally, the locals went all Ender's Game and fought back.

Later, after generations of epidemics and blackbirding, man Erro came to believe that their sad lot in life was nakaemas from killing the missionaries.

Anyway, I think I understand how they felt. The apology was a fine gesture, too.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

The medicinal kava users in Germany can get help for their anxiety using standardized extracts procured from the islands following better quality control than ever before. Recreational users are missing out for now but there's hope that standardisation will lead to greater market access and eventually full market access. That's what we should all be working towards.

What I don't understand are why a handful of kava users would fight so hard for this stuff when there is noble kava of equal and better effects available. It doesn't make sense except as a "you're not the boss of me!" reaction.

We all know that extracts do not produce anywhere near the effects of full kava root/traditional water extraction, so the medical users in Germany aren't getting all of the benefits that they would if it weren't being controlled by government and pharmaceutical companies. Add in all the people that could place orders and self treat their issues, there are a lot of people being negatively effected and a lot of root being wasted to produce those extracts.

I've found great benefit in several herbs that are either illegal in my area or soon to be illegal. The "you're not the boss of me" reaction for many is a result of the loss of quality of life (no access to medicinal herbs) or total loss of freedom (jail time for using herbs that improve quality of life). Not to mention the unfairness of one man having the power to tell another how to live his life or what he can or can't do.

I totally agree with the rest of your post. I love Vanuatu kava the most and it seems like other than a couple of varieties, it is all mystery mixes and it would be great to have vendors selling more single cultivars or being more transparent on what the mixes are composed of.

 

[kasa_balavu]

We all know that extracts do not produce anywhere near the effects of full kava root/traditional water extraction, so the medical users in Germany aren't getting all of the benefits that they would if it weren't being controlled by government and pharmaceutical companies.

You make it sound like Germans have always had free access to kava. Kava has *always* been controlled in Germany. It was available only through a doctors prescription until 2002 when it was banned altogether. The good work of the people mentioned in my prior post has resulted in a return to the status quo prior to the ban, which is a good thing for the people who can now get help for their anxiety that works, and for the poor farmers of the Pacific Islands who get higher prices for their kava due to increased demand.

Of course we all want full market access, (to Germany, UK, Australia, Canada, etc) but guess who is doing the work to get that access? The same people mentioned above who some have been trying so hard to tear down

I've found great benefit in several herbs that are either illegal in my area or soon to be illegal.

Let's assume for the purpose of this discussion that you're talking about marijuana. There are a thousand and one strains of weed (assume no new strains can be grown). Like it or not, your govt controls this plant. What would you choose if you had to pick between free and legal access to 700 strains, or a complete ban?

The "you're not the boss of me" reaction for many is a result of the loss of quality of life (no access to medicinal herbs)

Losing access to kava potentially negatively affects quality of life for tens of millions of people. Losing access to Isa/tudei negatively affects a handful of wholesalers/middlemen and a few farmers in the very short term. In fact it's more a hassle than anything else... they won't have trouble selling whatever they still have in their fields and warehouses. They can replant noble cultivars with no trouble at all.

Not to mention the unfairness of one man having the power to tell another how to live his life or what he can or can't do.

Yes I agree that is unfair and annoying. But that's life. I for one would probably be dead if it weren't for the protections I've received from governments that set standards on everything from food safety to road rules. I don't mind trading away some minor freedoms in exchange for a better quality of life.

Look I don't mean to be overly critical of you and I apologize if I've been too blunt. I understand your position and appreciate the chance to debate with you. I know you love kava. We both want everyone to be able to drink kava; we just disagree on which path to take to get there, and I believe my position is the pragmatic one whereas yours is idealistic and counterproductive.

 

[SelfBiasResistor]

You make it sound like Germans have always had free access to kava. Kava has *always* been controlled in Germany. It was available only through a doctors prescription until 2002 when it was banned altogether. The good work of the people mentioned in my prior post has resulted in a return to the status quo prior to the ban, which is a good thing for the people who can now get help for their anxiety that works, and for the poor farmers of the Pacific Islands who get higher prices for their kava due to increased demand.

Well, that's great if the change in status in Germany will be a gateway to getting more people access to it. I've just noticed the increasing number of European posters who have been complaining about having a harder time finding vendors to order from, having shipments seized, having to buy under the guise of pet care, etc. Maybe the situation will get better for Europe but I do know in the USA, if a plant becomes controlled and left in a doctors hands to prescribe, it will be extremely difficult to reverse. That and doctors will very rarely recommend an herb over a potentially dangerous pharma drug.

Look I don't mean to be overly critical of you and I apologize if I've been too blunt. I understand your position and appreciate the chance to debate with you. I know you love kava. We both want everyone to be able to drink kava; we just disagree on which path to take to get there, and I believe my position is the pragmatic one whereas yours is idealistic and counterproductive.

No need to apologize, I don't mind the bluntness. It just concerns me the way the push for noble only has caused so much confusion to new users who are under the impression tudei has been proven dangerous. I really think all kava should be presented as being safe but not equal until there is solid science to prove otherwise. In this part of the world, politicians are so quick to ban anything that could be considered a drug, they can't always be trusted to make informed decisions. It's even more risky with the current administration that has people in key positions that are attempting to ramp up the war on drugs (the AG, DEA, etc).

 

[John Sanday]

Thank you for your fact filled post on ISA. I already saw the Cheech and Chon version about ISA and , though entertaining, it's nice to get the plain facts. I had no idea it was so far removed from Kava genetically. I know there are some on the outskirts of the kava community who are promoting ISA and I understand it is super easy to grow compared to noble kava. With all the fanfare involved in its promotion, I assumed it would be showing up at some Kava Bars soon so we'll wait and see. At least the consumers are forewarned about ISA being "never drunk". I hate to find out the hard way why it is "never drunk".

Whoever said PNG Kava which is referred to here as "Isa" is never drunk needs to be corrected. The fact is that the PNG kava is being drunk and has been drunk for a very long time. I for one have been drinking copious amounts of this so called "Isa" variety for around 20 years and in many instances i drink this daily. Those that drink this PNG Kava testify to its effects being exactly the opposite to everything everyone here has been labelling about it.

There is no hangover effect, in fact the opposite is true, the morning after it has a halo effect and gives you a fresh morning to wake up to. I have been consuming very copious amounts and I have been having my regular blood tests in Australia every six months for years now and my liver is in perfect state. There is a following of PNG Kava in overseas markets and some have said that it is a very good kava. You can call it all you want and give the labels you feel warranted but you should all know that PNG kava is being drunk and followed by a sizeable market.

Finally, let me also disclose that I trade the PNG Kava and we go to all lengths to ensure it is safe and clean for the consumer. Whatever we produce is the stuff I drink.

And one last word to all true kava believers, from where I come from in Fiji, no Kava is a bad kava. It is a respected plant and each variety has it uses and non uses and it is tabu to denigrate kava of any variety. So let us all preserve the dignity of our beloved Kava plant and give all Kava varieties the respect it deserves. Somehow I get the feeling that all these new "missionaries" are trying to reinvent what we traditional users of Kava know about it. Sounds like the arrival of christianity all over again....a

 

[Edward]

Whoever said PNG Kava which is referred to here as "Isa" is never drunk needs to be corrected. The fact is that the PNG kava is being drunk and has been drunk for a very long time. I for one have been drinking copious amounts of this so called "Isa" variety for around 20 years and in many instances i drink this daily. Those that drink this PNG Kava testify to its effects being exactly the opposite to everything everyone here has been labelling about it.

There is no hangover effect, in fact the opposite is true, the morning after it has a halo effect and gives you a fresh morning to wake up to. I have been consuming very copious amounts and I have been having my regular blood tests in Australia every six months for years now and my liver is in perfect state. There is a following of PNG Kava in overseas markets and some have said that it is a very good kava. You can call it all you want and give the labels you feel warranted but you should all know that PNG kava is being drunk and followed by a sizeable market.

Finally, let me also disclose that I trade the PNG Kava and we go to all lengths to ensure it is safe and clean for the consumer. Whatever we produce is the stuff I drink.

And one last word to all true kava believers, from where I come from in Fiji, no Kava is a bad kava. It is a respected plant and each variety has it uses and non uses and it is tabu to denigrate kava of any variety. So let us all preserve the dignity of our beloved Kava plant and give all Kava varieties the respect it deserves. Somehow I get the feeling that all these new "missionaries" are trying to reinvent what we traditional users of Kava know about it. Sounds like the arrival of christianity all over again....a

Hi Doug, nice of you to drop in!

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

John Sanday appears to be an authentic account and truly an avid consumer and marketer of PNG kava. Considering this, his position on PNG kava makes complete sense, as he has a stake in the game and enjoys the product himself. I personally appreciate him sharing his experience, since we don't have many accounts of decades long tudei kava usage. But I'm sure he will be taken to task here pretty soon, words scrutinized and personal experience downplayed.

Something I'd point out, as it pertains to the concept of all kava being respected in Fiji, is that traditionally Fiji did not have any tudei or Isa-like varities. (As far as any known research has shown) So when it comes to Fiji's traditional kava varieties, they are all equally 'noble' and therfor worthy of equal respect. That is not to say that non-noble cultivars don't deserve respect too, or don't have their own use. Also, John, you will find there are other Fijian's who won't agree with you that PNG kava is to be equally respected and I believe the Fijian government has also begun making moves to ban the export of tudei kavas. Someone else might have more info on that.

Out of curiosity, how much kava powder do you personally use, to make your evening grog?

 

[The Kap'n]

Hi Doug, nice of you to drop in!

No shenanigans. User is genuine.

 

[verticity]

Whoever said PNG Kava which is referred to here as "Isa" is never drunk needs to be corrected. The fact is that the PNG kava is being drunk and has been drunk for a very long time. I for one have been drinking copious amounts of this so called "Isa" variety for around 20 years and in many instances i drink this daily. Those that drink this PNG Kava testify to its effects being exactly the opposite to everything everyone here has been labelling about it.

There is no hangover effect, in fact the opposite is true, the morning after it has a halo effect and gives you a fresh morning to wake up to. I have been consuming very copious amounts and I have been having my regular blood tests in Australia every six months for years now and my liver is in perfect state. There is a following of PNG Kava in overseas markets and some have said that it is a very good kava. You can call it all you want and give the labels you feel warranted but you should all know that PNG kava is being drunk and followed by a sizeable market.

Finally, let me also disclose that I trade the PNG Kava and we go to all lengths to ensure it is safe and clean for the consumer. Whatever we produce is the stuff I drink.

And one last word to all true kava believers, from where I come from in Fiji, no Kava is a bad kava. It is a respected plant and each variety has it uses and non uses and it is tabu to denigrate kava of any variety. So let us all preserve the dignity of our beloved Kava plant and give all Kava varieties the respect it deserves. Somehow I get the feeling that all these new "missionaries" are trying to reinvent what we traditional users of Kava know about it. Sounds like the arrival of christianity all over again....a

Welcome to the Forum.

I'm curious if you were the supplier of a variety that Bula Kava House used to sell called "Koniak"?

 

[kasa_balavu]

 

[Groggy]

Hi Doug, nice of you to drop in!

No shenanigans. User is genuine.

You have to admit this is pretty funny and erm, familiar.

 

[Krunkie McKrunkface]

But he is who he says he is and has been trading in kava for years, selling PNG kava to Fiji, about 16 - 20 tons a month. In the meantime, Fijians also sell kava to PNG.