Kava Side Effects I think I'm having an allergic reaction develop but I can't say for sure yet

[BourbonMac]

2 months ago I began using micronized, used 250g of it with no issue. Then I was using an extract for awhile with no issue. However, ever since I've started using medium grind, my skin is just getting awful. I mean right now, my neck region and upper/lower chest (particularly the upper) are so itchy and irritated, today being the worst day by far. This never happens AFTER I drink kava so it leaves me very confused. I do take 2 Benadryl a night for chronic tinnitus because it helps bring it down some but I took 2 Benadryl this afternoon and my itch never improved.

I see no real visible rash, some dry skin (pre-dermopathy?) and it just feels awful. I used to get hives as a kid and this feels even worse. No history of dry skin during the winter causing me to itch like this. The other day it got so bad that while trying to nap (which didn't work), I scratched so much that my whole upper chest became covered in red scrapes, almost resembling some of what I've seen in dermopathy.

It sucks, because kava is the only thing I've tried that helps with my chronic tinnitus which often stops me from sleeping at all. But now, it's the rash, at least if I want to nap during the day. Today was by far the worst. I did do 60g of kava 2 nights ago but I wasn't horribly itchy all of yesterday. Some, but just mild, not to this extreme. I tried to nap all day today after a long shift at work and was just constantly itching my belly region, falling asleep for 1 minute and waking back up to itching. Even though the kava helps my tinnitus a lot, it doesn't stop every spike and some nights I'm kept up nearly all night, and when I try to nap it keeps me up then too.

I do tend to take longer than needed showers but these also reduce my tinnitus in the evening, it has to be for at least 30 minutes or else it won't go down. My GP and I think it's fluid buildup but no ENT has confirmed it. we've just based this on A) me feeling like there's fluid in there and B) my eardrum often not moving when pumped full of air.

Antihistamines, hot showers and Flonase also reduce it. I had sinus surgery last May and the tinnitus cleared up 100% for 2 months, I'd had it for a year at that point, but it was very mild compared to how it's been since around mid August last year when it began to come back, gradually getting worse and worse, significantly worse than ever prior to surgery. The middle of last month is when it hit my left ear suddenly very bad, this was after I ran out of kava. That's when I made the connection, I wondered why all of 2023 up until that point both my ears were much quieter. Micro might've helped it more overall.

Anyway, all of this has only began since I started using medium grind, using an AluBall. I have no clue why given micronized apparently causes skin issues much worse than medium grind and I wasn't even straining it (it said you didn't have to and I didn't even know what that meant at the time). It'd just be really sad if this is how it ends, the tinnitus spikes can get so bad I end up not sleeping at all, which happened before I got my batch of medium grinds in the other day. The only way to really be sure is not take it for awhile. I do get my wisdom teeth out soon so I guess that'd be a forced break from it, not just a couple of days which I guess I may try now.

This could be something that just took awhile to develop, but I can't say. Everything itches whether it's red, looks dry or not. Today has by far been the worst itch, my whole shift was miserable.

 

[The Kap'n]

2 months ago I began using micronized, used 250g of it with no issue. Then I was using an extract for awhile with no issue. However, ever since I've started using medium grind, my skin is just getting awful. I mean right now, my neck region and upper/lower chest (particularly the upper) are so itchy and irritated, today being the worst day by far. This never happens AFTER I drink kava so it leaves me very confused. I do take 2 Benadryl a night for chronic tinnitus because it helps bring it down some but I took 2 Benadryl this afternoon and my itch never improved.

I see no real visible rash, some dry skin (pre-dermopathy?) and it just feels awful. I used to get hives as a kid and this feels even worse. No history of dry skin during the winter causing me to itch like this. The other day it got so bad that while trying to nap (which didn't work), I scratched so much that my whole upper chest became covered in red scrapes, almost resembling some of what I've seen in dermopathy.

It sucks, because kava is the only thing I've tried that helps with my chronic tinnitus which often stops me from sleeping at all. But now, it's the rash, at least if I want to nap during the day. Today was by far the worst. I did do 60g of kava 2 nights ago but I wasn't horribly itchy all of yesterday. Some, but just mild, not to this extreme. I tried to nap all day today after a long shift at work and was just constantly itching my belly region, falling asleep for 1 minute and waking back up to itching. Even though the kava helps my tinnitus a lot, it doesn't stop every spike and some nights I'm kept up nearly all night, and when I try to nap it keeps me up then too.

I do tend to take longer than needed showers but these also reduce my tinnitus in the evening, it has to be for at least 30 minutes or else it won't go down. My GP and I think it's fluid buildup but no ENT has confirmed it. we've just based this on A) me feeling like there's fluid in there and B) my eardrum often not moving when pumped full of air.

Antihistamines, hot showers and Flonase also reduce it. I had sinus surgery last May and the tinnitus cleared up 100% for 2 months, I'd had it for a year at that point, but it was very mild compared to how it's been since around mid August last year when it began to come back, gradually getting worse and worse, significantly worse than ever prior to surgery. The middle of last month is when it hit my left ear suddenly very bad, this was after I ran out of kava. That's when I made the connection, I wondered why all of 2023 up until that point both my ears were much quieter. Micro might've helped it more overall.

Anyway, all of this has only began since I started using medium grind, using an AluBall. I have no clue why given micronized apparently causes skin issues much worse than medium grind and I wasn't even straining it (it said you didn't have to and I didn't even know what that meant at the time). It'd just be really sad if this is how it ends, the tinnitus spikes can get so bad I end up not sleeping at all, which happened before I got my batch of medium grinds in the other day. The only way to really be sure is not take it for awhile. I do get my wisdom teeth out soon so I guess that'd be a forced break from it, not just a couple of days which I guess I may try now.

This could be something that just took awhile to develop, but I can't say. Everything itches whether it's red, looks dry or not. Today has by far been the worst itch, my whole shift was miserable.

What kava are you using? Brand?

 

[BourbonMac]

FijiVanuaKava, the same ones I posted in my thread the other day. Molo Tongo, Old Roots, Vanatu, Lewena Mewena (or something) and 2 more. I'm not sure if the strain matters necessarily, it was KWK micronized first and then I had their Loa Waka, but it was pretty weak. It all tastes/smells about the same though, some slightly more bitter.

 

[The Kap'n]

FijiVanuaKava, the same ones I posted in my thread the other day. Molo Tongo, Old Roots, Vanatu, Lewena Mewena (or something) and 2 more. I'm not sure if the strain matters necessarily, it was KWK micronized first and then I had their Loa Waka, but it was pretty weak. It all tastes/smells about the same though, some slightly more bitter.

Time for a break? Doesn't look like you're doing anything incorrect there. These effects usually are latent, and it could actually be some of the micronized and extract usage catching up with you.

 

[BourbonMac]

The micronized I used from like late December through mid January so I don't think it's that. Could be the extract although I haven't really been using it much and had no issue with last time. Still, if micro is more likely to cause it, maybe the extract is more responsible. I've stuck with medium grind lately but I think the itching did sort of start before I really was taking that form regularly. If it were either I'd think I would break out while under the effects. I at least now know over 40g of medium grind is too much from my bad time with 60 the other night (I felt fine but realized the effects kind of capped out around 40 and I had my first kava hangover). That day I didn't really find myself feeling that itchy. A little, but it is true that I have been showering for long periods and then a short one in the morning because my hair can get messy, I need to cut it soon. It's just been too cold and I've liked it long. Is it worth the effort over though, not really. My hair is extremely thick so it's a disaster most mornings and it takes crazy amounts of gel to hold.

 

[BourbonMac]

So for some reason I don't always get alerts on threads that are replied too, sometimes I do. Everything is turned on to receive them.
Anyway, I'm on the fence. I want to take some kava tonight, it's impossible to say if it's truly the kava because I have taken overly long hot showers and it's dry and wintery. There's no rash necessarily visible aside from redness from me itching. I used to get hives from lots of stuff as a kid like animals which I outgrew, and this is nothing like that.

You could be right that the extract is bad. I mean, it's pure kavalactones, and even if they don't seem to do much, I'm still technically taking a massive overdose most of the time. It's suggested a half gram, warns you of potency, and then I end up taking 3g on average, sometimes I'd take 4, even 5. I wasn't getting rashes taking just that, but maybe the combo with regular kava is a no go. I think I'll do 30g tonight or something, totally swamped though. I didn't sleep well last night because I'm a dumbass who needs to get his sleep schedule together, like that's all on me, I need to fix that. Then I wouldn't have to nap after work and deal with rashes or tinnitus keeping me up. It sucks because like, my tinnitus has been WAY better ever since I took 60g the other night. All day today it was gone. Nothing that normally triggers it triggers it.

Update: I'm almost sure I'm getting dermopathy to an extent. The upper part of my left leg below the hip is looking very scaly and dry, resembling some dermopathy I've seen. It's hard to say though, that area actually doesn't really itch. Lower chest is quite red and a bit scaly, that area itched the most today, around my neck tends to as well, but that area only really gets red. It's confusing, I really would hate for it to be from the kava. I wanted to do a little tonight but I guess that won't be happening. Either the extract is responsible or something medium grind gives me this rash more than micronized did. After looking at my lower belly more, it's 100% a rash. Whether it's dermopathy for sure I can't say but I'm like 70% sure. So I suppose I'm going to skip it tonight and see how I'm doing tomorrow, I applied a decent amount of Gold Bond healing lotion.

The "scaly" look on the skin may very well just be dry skin, it's absolutely nowhere near the images I find googling about it. But those could've been from longer term users. All I know is I've never developed any type of itching or rash after ingesting it, so I don't think it's entirely an allergic reaction but some kind of rash thing. I guess I'll find out tomorrow depending on my tinnitus if it's really been helping this much. Today nothing set it off, kava was too good to be true, I'd hate for it to end like this. It just doesn't make sense, I've heard of rash after ingesting, but not like 12+ hours later. Maybe it's "pre-dermopathy" but I don't know if it'd present as a basic looking rash. All I know is, nothing really bad seemed to happen the day after I took 60g straight. I took some of the extract last night, though, so I guess after a day or two of no kava, I'll see how just regular goes.

 

[The Kap'n]

Remember dermopathy from kava is a very slow process to acquire, and also a slow process to fade. If you're consuming daily and have for several months then you're right at the spot where many of us start to use a daily moisturizer after the shower.

This is what full-on kava dermopathy looks like:

 

[The Kap'n]

Also, if you were allergic to kava, this would have presented itself within weeks of starting consumption. I'm leaning towards dermo as well.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah tonight is the first time I got any rash AFTER drinking it. My normal lower body rash doesn't itch, it's my upper chest and into my shoulders some, it's very uncomfortable. I guess I have no choice but to stop using it for a few days or something. I've been using gold bond aloe healing lotion. I've put everything on this upper body redness though, gold bond, lidocane and aloe, it hasn't really helped. Just the back of my hair touching my neck is irritating.

I'm guessing dermopathy must be pretty common, then? My skin looks nowhere near like that, but I did notice some mild scaliness on my lower chest last night. I could look into moisturizers after showering, but I think I have to just stop it for a little bit as much as I don't want to because it keeps my tinnitus in check. I wonder if certain strains are worse, or if getting any on my hand, root or liquid and touching somewhere could cause some itch. I don't seem to recall ever touching my neck though. I did use germ-X instead of washing my hands after they got wet so maybe that's not as helpful but I'd imagine it'd kill any kava on the hands.

I guess for now I could deal with twice or three times a week or something, I really don't want to have to deal with skin problems. I was given the impression medium grind doesn't cause issues like this and micronized is more likely to. Otherwise I guess I could take a week off or something and see if my ears really do get worse. I'm quite sure it does help my tinnitus but I've also had some of my worst spikes in the past week, so it's actually hard to be sure.

 

[BourbonMac]

Well, it's 4 days no kava and my skin has improved but not fully. Unfortunately, my tinnitus has worsened significantly, meaning my only cure will cause me skin trouble. Sad :/ I'm in the process of coming off Diazepam as well and kava has been a big aid to that, and was my intended replacement. Looks like nature wants me to keep popping pills instead. Awesome, huh?

I tried the extract out of desperation because I just want fucking silence, so bad. I'd cut off toes, fingers, anything. I'd rather be deaf if it meant I didn't have to hear this chronic debilitating tinnitus that is so bad it's beyond words. My chest is currently burning like someone scrubbed it with sand paper. So I guess it doesn't matter, kavalactones in general are causing me problems and I have to stop using any kava products for awhile I guess. There's no way I can use it daily even though I wanted to. I love it, I really do. It improves my mood, I get afterglows, my tinnitus cuts by 70%. Tonight all the stuff that normally helps like a hot shower didn't help at all. Flonase didn't help either. So I'm fucked, stuck between burning or itchy skin or tinnitus that makes me want to kill myself. I was hospitalized last September actually over this, but I don't want to get into details. It just fucking sucks, kava was the perfect substance in every way. I've tried all kinds of moisturizers and nothing helps. I could back off for a little while, but then what, it happens again right away? It's inevitable regardless with regular use. Maybe I just didnt wait long enough, I mean today was the first day my skin started actually improving. I used the extract merely as a test to see if I'd get a bad reaction, and I have.

 

[kw2292]

Are you using hot water? For me different kavas certainly have more pronounced skin effects. Rotating helps for me as well as cutting my amount by half for 3-4 days a week. In general the cleaner processed they are the better too I think.

 

[Groggy]

Try to find a happy medium with kava.

 

[BourbonMac]

I'm getting there. I used medium grind for the first time again last night and my tinnitus was literally gone the entire day. Nothing triggered it. I did get a bit itchy, which sucked, but claratin seemed to help. Maybe that's my strategy, along with taking doses that don't have to be recreational. I'm just sipping 15g right now. I did want to come off Diazepam using kava but it just doesn't seem fit. I'll have to just come off that alone rather than use something else as a crutch. Stuff hardly does crap for me anymore anyway. I have really grown to dislike the flavor of kava though, can't lie. I need to find a strategy for making a nice beverage.

 

[Groggy]

I have really grown to dislike the flavor of kava though, can't lie. I need to find a strategy for making a nice beverage.

Commonly used items are tropical flavor beverages, pineapple, mango, etc. Coconut water is another option instead of using water to extract, it works I've done it, but more pricy, prolly best to use it as a chaser or to cut the flavor of kava, after kneading it . Chasers are my favorite method for peppery kavas, I like ginger ale or better yet, ginger beer, this is helps to settle the gut. You can even use a glass of milk as a chaser, depends on your taste. Fat seems to amplify effects so be careful there.

 

[JohnMichael]

Commonly used items are tropical flavor beverages, pineapple, mango, etc. Coconut water is another option instead of using water to extract, it works I've done it, but more pricy, prolly best to use it as a chaser or to cut the flavor of kava, after kneading it . Chasers are my favorite method for peppery kavas, I like ginger ale or better yet, ginger beer, this is helps to settle the gut. You can even use a glass of milk as a chaser, depends on your taste. Fat seems to amplify effects so be careful there.

Amen! Ginger Beer is the best chaser, hands down.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah there must've been some dermopathy or something happening. I stopped the past week due to wisdom teeth removal on Monday. Haven't had any itch all week.
This could be a good thing. Like, maybe now I can start taking it again. I did have a day where I'd taken it and my tinnitus was worse the next day, but I still think it was helping, really. It's been worse ever since last Friday but also much worse during recovery, especially the first day from biting down on gauze all day.

I'd been taking too much ibuprofen the months leading up to surgery due to headaches, taking passionflower at night, eating papaya enzymes after meals and pineapple ones as well, all of these thin blood.

Even kava thins blood, though I hadn't taken it for 2 days before surgery so I don't know if that's related as much. Instead of my bleeding stopping after 4-5 hours, it took 16 hours, and I was bleeding a fucking lot... damn it was brutal.

 

[BourbonMac]

Well, I didn't take it for 10 days and even then was using less before that, and I instantly have the bad itchy skin today, it's hopeless. I'll never be able to come off Diazepam :/ this is the only thing that works as well, better in fact. I was using less Diazepam and tapering more and more with kava. Like, why man... I suffer so much in my life and kava was too good to be true. 10 days off and waning use before that should've been enough to make this stop happening, but it didn't and it fucking sucks.

My only option is to re-try micronized again because it seems only medium grind has been causing this reaction for me despite being well strained with no roots or anything left over. I didn't even strain my micronized before and it never caused bad skin reactions, and this is the most likely one to cause dermopathy and such, especially unstrained. KWK just said no need to strain and I trusted it, but after reading up on it, most people strain micro because it's so hard on the gut. It sure is, I never was more constipated in my life.

So there you have it, I can't take kava despite it helping my anxiety, tinnitus and life in general. I'll be stuck on pharmaceuticals forever because I guess the universe just hates me. As if I haven't already suffered enough in my life. I finally struck gold with kava and I can't use it. It doesn't matter if it's extract or medium grind, I'd stopped extract awhile ago just to see if it was more likely from that, it's not. I only did 15g medium grind last night, the bad skin reaction is always the next day usually, with maybe mild irritation while on the kava. It's just masked by Benadryl which I take at night to lessen my tinnitus just a little bit.

I wouldn't even be on the Diazepam if my tinnitus wasn't so bad, I had just about quit it last summer by late July until somewhere mid August it started coming back, but it was much worse than before and it's culminated in it currently being the worst it's ever been. During the period of tapering and having silent nights all June and July, I was at the most peace I'd ever been. 2022 was a Hell year for me. I didn't even eat half the year because ENTs would just throw antibiotics at me since they make you jump all these hurdles before they'll actually give you the surgery. I ended up with such bad acid reflux I couldn't even keep water down. By the time of around my surgery this finally went away but I still had bad stomach cramps, which the Diazepam also helped with. I'd have died of not eating without it at the time. But by summer, all these issues were gone. Life like like a dream, I'd crossed all these hurdles and everything was perfect. Silent, summer nights, a nose that works, full taste and smell.

But here I lie, suck on Diazepam because kava just has to cause skin problems when it didn't for months. It was way out of my system after 10 days, so apparently I need months off again, I guess.... I was planning to take a higher amount tonight just to see how much it helps, it didn't help much today it seems, but it did help, it's nowhere near as bad as it was yesterday or prior days. FUCK ME! This plant is a miracle, I knew it was too good to be true. I've been pretty suicidal lately (spare the hotline numbers and such, anyone who's been through this knows they're useless) mostly because of my tinnitus. I haven't been able to sleep well in awhile. Only after recovering from my wisdom teeth surgery did I get any sleep because of Oxycodone, a drug notorious for causing itching. Did it for me? Nope, nothing. No opioids ever made me feel itchy, no substance of any kind except for kava.

Update: holy shit... I mean, TMI, but I've had black underwear on today, usually I just wear white or light grey. The amount of skin I've shed is unbelievable, just one day back at using kava and it ruins my skin. I ordered the micronized, it's my desperate last attempt at seeing if there's any way it can help because only once I started using medium grind did any of this start happening to me.

 

[JohnMichael]

Well, I didn't take it for 10 days and even then was using less before that, and I instantly have the bad itchy skin today, it's hopeless. I'll never be able to come off Diazepam :/ this is the only thing that works as well, better in fact. I was using less Diazepam and tapering more and more with kava. Like, why man... I suffer so much in my life and kava was too good to be true. 10 days off and waning use before that should've been enough to make this stop happening, but it didn't and it fucking sucks.

My only option is to re-try micronized again because it seems only medium grind has been causing this reaction for me despite being well strained with no roots or anything left over. I didn't even strain my micronized before and it never caused bad skin reactions, and this is the most likely one to cause dermopathy and such, especially unstrained. KWK just said no need to strain and I trusted it, but after reading up on it, most people strain micro because it's so hard on the gut. It sure is, I never was more constipated in my life.

So there you have it, I can't take kava despite it helping my anxiety, tinnitus and life in general. I'll be stuck on pharmaceuticals forever because I guess the universe just hates me. As if I haven't already suffered enough in my life. I finally struck gold with kava and I can't use it. It doesn't matter if it's extract or medium grind, I'd stopped extract awhile ago just to see if it was more likely from that, it's not. I only did 15g medium grind last night, the bad skin reaction is always the next day usually, with maybe mild irritation while on the kava. It's just masked by Benadryl which I take at night to lessen my tinnitus just a little bit.

I wouldn't even be on the Diazepam if my tinnitus wasn't so bad, I had just about quit it last summer by late July until somewhere mid August it started coming back, but it was much worse than before and it's culminated in it currently being the worst it's ever been. During the period of tapering and having silent nights all June and July, I was at the most peace I'd ever been. 2022 was a Hell year for me. I didn't even eat half the year because ENTs would just throw antibiotics at me since they make you jump all these hurdles before they'll actually give you the surgery. I ended up with such bad acid reflux I couldn't even keep water down. By the time of around my surgery this finally went away but I still had bad stomach cramps, which the Diazepam also helped with. I'd have died of not eating without it at the time. But by summer, all these issues were gone. Life like like a dream, I'd crossed all these hurdles and everything was perfect. Silent, summer nights, a nose that works, full taste and smell.

But here I lie, suck on Diazepam because kava just has to cause skin problems when it didn't for months. It was way out of my system after 10 days, so apparently I need months off again, I guess.... I was planning to take a higher amount tonight just to see how much it helps, it didn't help much today it seems, but it did help, it's nowhere near as bad as it was yesterday or prior days. FUCK ME! This plant is a miracle, I knew it was too good to be true. I've been pretty suicidal lately (spare the hotline numbers and such, anyone who's been through this knows they're useless) mostly because of my tinnitus. I haven't been able to sleep well in awhile. Only after recovering from my wisdom teeth surgery did I get any sleep because of Oxycodone, a drug notorious for causing itching. Did it for me? Nope, nothing. No opioids ever made me feel itchy, no substance of any kind except for kava.

Update: holy shit... I mean, TMI, but I've had black underwear on today, usually I just wear white or light grey. The amount of skin I've shed is unbelievable, just one day back at using kava and it ruins my skin. I ordered the micronized, it's my desperate last attempt at seeing if there's any way it can help because only once I started using medium grind did any of this start happening to me.

I hope you're able, eventually, to be able to drink a very occasional shell of kava. Wish you the best.

 

[BourbonMac]

I had even more last night and my skin is better today, so I'm confused... I will see how the micronized goes in any case. I mean my skin is a bit irritated but it's nothing much.

It's strange how until medium grind, I never had any skin issues. It's supposed to be the other way around. And yeah, I've had more tinnitus relief today than yesterday. It may be that I need to do it for a series of days to have a truly good day, though silly things can spike it like eating, particularly something crunchy. Me and my GP are still convinced it's fluid in the eustachian tubes, I've literally felt stuff moving around in there before, and if your eardrums don't move, it's 95% of the time going to be from fluid. I'm getting a 3rd opinion from an ENT next month in consideration of tubes, I'll be really let down if they don't consider it, especially if they actually did and the tubes turned out to not work. Still, it's clearly a physical problem. I wouldn't have had it go away for 2 months after sinus surgery if it wasn't ENT related. Only problem is it came back way, way worse and through the months only continues to get worse. Kava isn't a cure, but it does better than anything that's supposed to help tinnitus like gingko biloba and vitamin B1. The former is often lumped with kava as something that helps tinnitus.

 

[BourbonMac]

So, I thought I was in the clear with micronized, I had no skin reaction all day until THE END of my shift... how the hell does that make any sense? Shouldn't it cause the reaction right away? It was basically always delayed, like I'd get it 8-12 hours after ingestion, this time it was 16 hours. I knew it was from the kava because during my nearly 2 week break from it after my wisdom teeth came out, my skin never got red, dry or itchy at all. Either I can never take it again or I need months off, and I'll lose my mind at that rate because NOTHING helps my tinnitus like kava does.

I've tried literally every recommended supplement on the planet and this is the only thing that helps and my tinnitus can keep me awake very easily, it doesn't matter how much background noise there is given I'm a side sleeper. If I sleep on my back, I get heartburn for some reason and I don't even have GERD or ever get heartburn normally. It might just be a muscular sensation that mimics it but it's still not pleasant, and I much prefer sleeping on my sides anyway. Once my ears are against the pillow the noise is especially bad.

I've done a lot of research and I've never heard of skin reactions happening in such a delayed manner. It should be happening during the PEAK of the effects, not way after half of it's out of your system or even nearly all of it.