"Pure speculation is not probable cause."

[Señor Chuggs]

Interesting. I'm very pleased that unlike your description of the Solomon Islands, Vanuatu has a government that takes an active interest in its citizens, and is concerned about their welfare:

"Kava is an integral part of Vanuatu society, symbolising peace, respect and goodwill. Important ceremonies are incomplete without kava either as beverage or as freshly dugout roots. Over the last 3 decades, use of the kava beverage has evolved from being a social drink that village folks would enjoy at the nakamals in the evenings to an established cash crop that is sold on the domestic and export markets.

The birth of commercial kava has brought along with it a number of challenges that the industry has not been able to address in a cohesive manner. In particular kava quality remains a big concern along the production and marketing chain. Vanuatu has about 80 varieties of kava which comprises good as well as bad varieties for the beverage market. Farmers chose fast growing varieties that often are not recommended varieties for the beverage market.

It is for this reason that the Ministry of Agriculture has put together a National Kava Strategy to address gaps in the production and marketing chains. The Kava Strategy is part of a series of strategic documents produced by the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development to assist in implementing the Vanuatu Agriculture Sector Policy (2015-2030).

Many people contributed to the development of this strategic document. I would like to note especially the contribution of farmers and the Kava Industry representatives during consultation meetings held on Malekula and Santo. Comments received formed the core of this document. I would also like to acknowledge various individuals under the Ministry of Trades and Ministry of Agriculture for their contributions in directing the development of the document."
James Wasi
Acting Director
Department of Agriculture and Rural Development

"More than 80% of Vanuatu’s population rely on agriculture for their daily subsistence and wellbeing. Subsistence farming continues to be the mainstay of Vanuatu’s economy, however an increasing proportion of farmers are evolving into semi-commercial farming, making the sector the largest provider of employment.

Kava is the third largest export commodity from Vanuatu and its utility as a cash crop is universally recognised. The issues facing the sector are well known and well documented, and solutions have been put forward in the past in various studies and working groups on how to deal with these issues.

Observations suggest that the volume of kava consumed locally and the ancillary activities surrounding local consumption would gross over VT 2 billion per annum.

Quality and Quantity are the challenges facing the industry. Many attempts have been made to try and address these challenges but results have been mixed and awareness materials developed have not been disseminated to the level where those who need to know are aware of their existence."

THE PROPOSED VISION IS: TO BE THE LEADING PRODUCER OF QUALITY KAVA IN THE PACIFIC AND THE WORLD.

Source: Vanuatu National Kava Strategy

So, the government of Vanuatu is clearly interested in improving the lives of all concerned, but it appears that you disagree with this strategy and vision. Why?

I could be wrong, but communities could knowingly or unknowingly align with the same goals concerning improvement. They also could not.

That also does not necessarily mean that said communities all align with, or are even aware of, the strategies outlined by this document. I don't even think all the participants in this thread are fully versed in those points.

That said, @Deleted User, you obviously are quite informed of the Vanuatu policy and we all appreciate your thoughtful contributions to this discussion

 

[Señor Chuggs]

Wow, seeing as I came way late to this discussion, my intention was to just lurk, and not assert any statements in hindsight.... I see the passion of the controversy has got me too heated to remain silent.

I hope none of my post have ruffled anyone's feathers after the fact.

As heated as these discussions get, I do in fact use this information to guide my purchases. The "bickering" here is a lot more substantial than that of many other forum communities.

 

[Ricardo Piquant]

I might throw it away too, and likely contact the vendor to ask if this particular product was noble. I would not, However, assume the vendor had ill intentions because I didn't react well to One or more of their products. Someone out there may like it. I do NOT see any reason to "blacklist" a vendor (especially publicly) unless they were objectively disceptive.

(Not saying you would, I'm speaking more about the general attitude the acetone test has fostered)

I wouldn't trash a vendor on these forums. But to me, the consideration of whether a vendor is deliberately deceptive or had ill intentions, or not, is moot. I would view it more as lack of quality control, and lack of intimate knowledge of one's own product, which in my mind's eye means a vendor is not tight enough and would make me question what else about the vendor is subpar I simply wouldn't purchase from such a vendor again (jmho). I feel that since this is a product being taken into our bodies, the utmost care is required to ensure, to the extent possible, the product is what it should be. I don't believe we as consumers can be fanatical enough about demanding absolute care from our vendors when distributing this particular product. Luckily I think many vendors do care. I would hope they would never try to pass something on because they got stuck with an inferior batch, for example.

All jmho

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

How do we know Koniak is some miracle anomaly? A Tudei thats "not like" other Tudeis?

Sounds to me like their might be kavas that are just "not like" other kavas...... And maybe we could vet our kavas traditionally (by drinking them) IN ADDITION to quantitative chemical testing.

I am not saying anything about any controversy but I thought this would be a good spot to insert some information. "A Tudei that's "not like" other Tudeis?" I can tell you that Isa and Iwi are 2 tudie kava's from PNG, while a lot of people might get sick from drinking Isa and some don't. All would get sick from drinking Iwi, there is that much of a difference between the 2, there are differences. Aloha.

Chris

 

[Palmetto]

Chris @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava , to play devil's advocate, isn't Iwi different from Isa in the fact that it should have lower flavokawain levels than Isa, despite being stronger in kavalactones? My real question is: why don't people use Iwi as a mixer at low percentages to add heaviness to other cultivars? Without having tried it, I could imagine an 80% Mo'i + 20% Iwi being a very nice balanced blend. Is there any reason to think of using Iwi as a minor blending constituent as a bad idea? Blending small amounts could potentially put the blend within the limits of what could be considered noble if the DHK and DHM levels were more in the range of heavier noble cultivars. I'm not trying to argue, just figure out a question.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Chris @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava , to play devil's advocate, isn't Iwi different from Isa in the fact that it should have lower flavokawain levels than Isa, despite being stronger in kavalactones? My real question is: why don't people use Iwi as a mixer at low percentages to add heaviness to other cultivars? Without having tried it, I could imagine an 80% Mo'i + 20% Iwi being a very nice balanced blend. Is there any reason to think of using Iwi as a minor blending constituent as a bad idea? Blending small amounts could potentially put the blend within the limits of what could be considered noble if the DHK and DHM levels were more in the range of heavier noble cultivars. I'm not trying to argue, just figure out a question.

From what I remember flavo and levels is just one hypothesis used to explain tudei's negative side effects. There could be other, yet unknown, factors and as such avoiding tudei and not just looking at fkb levels might be the most prudent thing to do if one wants to avoid any of the tudei effects

 

[Palmetto]

@Henry I don't think there is any mystery about really high DHK and DHM concentrations causing tudei effects. If you dilute them with a heady cultivar, that problem is gone. But I suspect that Iwi has lower FKB levels than Isa, because Iwi is supposedly closer related to noble cultivars than to other tudeis like Isa.

 

[kasa_balavu]

I loved the Koniak. I do not remember it having any next day effects, or at least none more pronounced than a strong, dark Waka.

Just as an FYI:
Waka just means roots in Fijian, and therefore applies to all cultivars grown in Fiji, as well as any kava roots imported.

Personally I've felt more pronounced morning after effects from Fiji wakas than any other kind, save labeled ISAs. (If Koniak is technically an ISA than I stand corrected)

That Fijian waka might well have been Koniak, or ISA, or Loa Kasa Balavu, or any number of other Fijian or Vanuatu kava cultivars. Any kava labelled simply "waka" is a blend of unknown cultivars.

If your experience with that waka extends from over a year ago, it might very well have contained stem peelings as well.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

Chris @Gourmet Hawaiian Kava , to play devil's advocate, isn't Iwi different from Isa in the fact that it should have lower flavokawain levels than Isa, despite being stronger in kavalactones? My real question is: why don't people use Iwi as a mixer at low percentages to add heaviness to other cultivars? Without having tried it, I could imagine an 80% Mo'i + 20% Iwi being a very nice balanced blend. Is there any reason to think of using Iwi as a minor blending constituent as a bad idea? Blending small amounts could potentially put the blend within the limits of what could be considered noble if the DHK and DHM levels were more in the range of heavier noble cultivars. I'm not trying to argue, just figure out a question.

For me it is not even a question about blending a tudei kava. It has always been a Noble thing and there has never been any reports of the people of Vanuatu blending Noble and Tudei kava and then drinking it. I will only promote 100% pure Noble kava for everyday drinking.
Iwi for some reason makes people very sick, it seems that some people can handle Isa but it also seems that most if not all get sick from Iwi.
I like to stick with the knowledge of the ancient tradition of kava, the one of using only Noble kava for every day drinking.
Trust me, I have tried both Isa and Iwi, wow what a difference, with Iwi you get the truest sense of all the negative effects associated with Tudei kava. I might recommend mixing some Hanakapi Ai or one of the heavy Hawaiian varieties. Thanks for your input. Aloha.

Chris

 

[kasa_balavu]

This blog post thoroughly attacking those who seek to improve the quality of kava in the western world is really quite upsetting to read. I for one appreciate the Testers™ and their work and would be proud to be considered a minor member of their party.

 

[Groggy]

I am not pleased with that blog post either, but people are entitled to their opinions. What makes it really strange is this post a mere three days later, where two of the "sticker" vendors are given an "award" - including the "one particular vendor"!

I have no idea what message this blogger is trying to send, but maybe a third entry is forthcoming where all will be explained...

With all due respect, half the time I don't understand why you take these things so personally, you are an advocate for noble kava, as is @Kavasseur (since you are referring to him), as am I and I am pretty certain the rest of this forum. Certainly the majority.
So what is really the debate? Must you always be right? Is it a petty thing like that, frankly, as a member I am tired of these feuds polluting this forum, because at some point it ceases to be an intellectual discussion and it turns into a pissing contest (pardon my English and bluntness).