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Why didn't tudei just disappear without any testing?

tonythefiddler

Kava Curious
Tudei is so terrible. Just had some again the other day when my order was held up, and yuck. Just 2 days of tudei (hahaha) and i was sick. I did tudei for 2 or 3 weeks a couple years ago, and just threw it out when i peed brown. It was wakacon before they even tried to be noble, good potent stuff but the after effects and possible liver damage was not a good trade off, i wouldn't even have given it away.
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
Wait, what? Please explain this. Nobody has a monopoly on noble kava. Everyone can grow noble kava. Everyone who trades in kava can buy noble kava. Everyone who sells kava can sell noble kava. Noble kava isn't owned by "a group of vendors". Noble kava isn't owned by "a pharmaceutical scientist". I mean, what you're claiming seems like something straight out of THE WEB'S ONLY RELIABLE, UNBIASED, TRUSTWORTHY SOURCE FOR KAVA REVIEWS AND NEWS.


Do you mean Germany? Kava wasn't legal there in the first place. Extracted kavalactones were legal until the early 2000's. Then it was banned for a decade and a half until the good work of Dr. Matthais Schmidt, the Vanuatu Amabassador to the EU Roy Mickey Joy, and countless others. Your attempt at painting this as a bad thing is bewildering.


The only lobbying done that I know of was by millionaire Peter Colmar, possibly the largest tudei grower in the world, and his trading partner Tyler Blythe. While their efforts were driven by personal greed, I'd disagree with your assertion that they intended to harm their competitors. They just wanted to be able to profit off their tudei kava, and the long-term risk to the industry be damned.
That's not what I was saying but I'm used to being taken out of context, having words put in my mouth and the inaccurate assumptions. It's not possible to have a productive conversation on these topics when one side is overly defensive and extremely paranoid. Not everyone who questions or disagrees is part of a big conspiracy.
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Tudei is so terrible. Just had some again the other day when my order was held up, and yuck. Just 2 days of tudei (hahaha) and i was sick. I did tudei for 2 or 3 weeks a couple years ago, and just threw it out when i peed brown. It was wakacon before they even tried to be noble, good potent stuff but the after effects and possible liver damage was not a good trade off, i wouldn't even have given it away.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I have heard many experiences like yours but I have heard little on the other side. Seems like just a few people can handle the tudei or even like it.
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, he has a kava bar here in Hawaii and he does sell Isa. He told me that very few people order the Isa, he said the ones that like the Isa is just a few hard core regulars. All others prefer the Noble kava.
What is funny to me is that he told me one time there were 2 people that are very much in favor of Tudei kava (they are in the kava business too, large companies, larger than mine), well they came into my friends kava bar and they wanted the best kava he had, so he gave it to them and they told him that really was the best kava they ever had, they were talking about how strong it was and how it had perfect qualities.
Little did they know that was my root 100% pure Hawaiian. They did not know that the Hawaiian root of happiness made the ROH very happy that they got to try some of the best kava they have ever had, those were the words from there own mouth. They still don't know it was my kava they drank and liked so much. The funny part is they really do not like me at all and probably would never try my kava. It makes me happy that I can make those that don't like me happy with the best Hawaiian kava on the market. Sorry for the long story.
Aloha.

Chris
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
Tudei is so terrible. Just had some again the other day when my order was held up, and yuck. Just 2 days of tudei (hahaha) and i was sick. I did tudei for 2 or 3 weeks a couple years ago, and just threw it out when i peed brown. It was wakacon before they even tried to be noble, good potent stuff but the after effects and possible liver damage was not a good trade off, i wouldn't even have given it away.
Out of curiosity, who sold you the tudei and how was it labelled/marketed? What were the tudei effects you noticed from it?
 

kasa_balavu

Yaqona Dina
That's not what I was saying but I'm used to being taken out of context, having words put in my mouth and the inaccurate assumptions. It's not possible to have a productive conversation on these topics when one side is overly defensive and extremely paranoid. Not everyone who questions or disagrees is part of a big conspiracy.
But I quoted your words. Your exact words, as can be seen by anyone who scrolls up a few posts. If that's not what you were saying... if the words you used don't mean what they appear to mean, then by all means tell us what those words mean. Instead of pointing the finger back at me for being "overly defensive and extremely paranoid", why not explain the words you say I've "taken out of context" and "put in your mouth"?

Here are your words again, directly quoted except for me highlighting the text I was referring to in my response:
I see a group of vendors and a pharmaceutical scientist not only engaging in public awareness but also into politics in efforts to have only their products sold.
 

Intrepidus_dux

Kava O.G.
@Deleted User , it’s simply amazing what you and others have done with your project and I thank you for it.

I’d like kava in the USA to get to this point; where I show up in the ER (like I did about six months ago?) with clear liver distress, and have my case dismissed as an idiot who drinks kava. Whereas, it was actually my multivitamin that was poisoning me which i had to discover all on my own while striving through liver pain. If kava could be mainstream considered safe, that would be simply amazing. I feel we’re getting close. I’m sort of the Arizona kava introducer out here which is cool, but a tad expensive.

Back to the original point; luckily, my current treatment providers are supportive of my kava drinking for chronic pain, but many are clueless and start pointing fingers before trying to learn very much. It’s not conducive to finding the real problem and is actually dangerous. Can you believe it? This kava is bad for your liver myth is actually dangerous for kava drinkers!
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
@Deleted User , it’s simply amazing what you and others have done with your project and I thank you for it.

I’d like kava in the USA to get to this point; where I show up in the ER (like I did about six months ago?) with clear liver distress, and have my case dismissed as an idiot who drinks kava. Whereas, it was actually my multivitamin that was poisoning me which i had to discover all on my own while striving through liver pain. If kava could be mainstream considered safe, that would be simply amazing. I feel we’re getting close. I’m sort of the Arizona kava introducer out here which is cool, but a tad expensive.

Back to the original point; luckily, my current treatment providers are supportive of my kava drinking for chronic pain, but many are clueless and start pointing fingers before trying to learn very much. It’s not conducive to finding the real problem and is actually dangerous. Can you believe it? This kava is bad for your liver myth is actually dangerous for kava drinkers!
I am glad you found out what was causing your problem and was able to fix it. Who would have thought, a multivitamin. Thanks also for your kava introductions in Arizona, it's good to spread the kava word. Aloha.

Chris
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
But I quoted your words. Your exact words, as can be seen by anyone who scrolls up a few posts. If that's not what you were saying... if the words you used don't mean what they appear to mean, then by all means tell us what those words mean. Instead of pointing the finger back at me for being "overly defensive and extremely paranoid", why not explain the words you say I've "taken out of context" and "put in your mouth"?

Here are your words again, directly quoted except for me highlighting the text I was referring to in my response:
Yes, you quoted me but I wasn't suggesting anything like monopoly's in growing, buying, etc. Anyway, looking back at it, I was in a hurry and the post was poorly worded, so it's all good.
 

Blinkyrocket

Kava Enthusiast
One thing I saw is that somebody said the Libertarian idea of selling Kava is too idealistic etc. In an actual Libertarian government, wouldn't that government be powerless to even ban Kava at all? The whole point of Libertarianism would be to limit the power of the government to take actions such as this. Not saying the country would be better off without the FDA etc.; the FDA could still exist for people's edifications on what's been confirmed GRAS, but they would be powerless to enact bans based on their information. Also, I don't know if this system is best, or even good; I'm just saying that I think this is how a Libertarian government would work, for better or worse. The general idea of Libertarianism is to throw, at least some, caution and safety to the wind in favor of more extensive freedom.
 
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recentreturn

Kava Enthusiast
One thing I saw is that somebody said the Libertarian idea of selling Kava is too idealistic etc. In an actual Libertarian government, wouldn't that government be powerless to even ban Kava at all? The whole point of Libertarianism would be to limit the power of the government to take actions such as this. Not saying the country would be better off without the FDA etc.; the FDA could still exist for people's edifications on what's been confirmed GRAS, but they would be powerless to enact bans based on their information. Also, I don't know if this system is best, or even good; I'm just saying that I think this is how a Libertarian government would work, for better or worse. The general idea of Libertarianism is to throw, at least some, caution and safety to the wind in favor of more extensive freedom.
I don't know much about politics; your point may be true. But I don't think that discussion was really about the power of the gov't to regulate. I think it was about whether regulation is good or bad for kava industry, from farmer to consumer.
 

Blinkyrocket

Kava Enthusiast
I don't know much about politics; your point may be true. But I don't think that discussion was really about the power of the gov't to regulate. I think it was about whether regulation is good or bad for kava industry, from farmer to consumer.
Yeah, I know, and it is a derailing if the topic. I'm not meaning to start a discussion about Libertarianism; it's just that I like giving corrections to misconceptions. Actually, I can't say it's a correction, per se, because I may be wrong, and I don't think many people are ever completely right about something. I just like to present the facts (what is considered to be true; facts are not necessarily truths) from other perspectives and such.
 

recentreturn

Kava Enthusiast
Yeah, I know, and it is a derailing if the topic. I'm not meaning to start a discussion about Libertarianism; it's just that I like giving corrections to misconceptions. Actually, I can't say it's a correction, per se, because I may be wrong, and I don't think many people are ever completely right about something. I just like to present the facts (what is considered to be true; facts are not necessarily truths) from other perspectives and such.
Fair enough.
 

SelfBiasResistor

Persist for Resistance!
Yeah, I know, and it is a derailing if the topic. I'm not meaning to start a discussion about Libertarianism; it's just that I like giving corrections to misconceptions. Actually, I can't say it's a correction, per se, because I may be wrong, and I don't think many people are ever completely right about something. I just like to present the facts (what is considered to be true; facts are not necessarily truths) from other perspectives and such.
Yes, in a government run by Libertarian principles, there would be no bans. No need to worry about tudei causing problems for noble and anyone that wanted tudei could get it. Everyone can do as they please with their bodies, whether other people like it or not. I agree it doesn't make sense in this context but it was more of an attempt to discredit. Kinda like how the term conspiracy theorist is popular for that purpose.
 

Blinkyrocket

Kava Enthusiast
Yes, in a government run by Libertarian principles, there would be no bans. No need to worry about tudei causing problems for noble and anyone that wanted tudei could get it. Everyone can do as they please with their bodies, whether other people like it or not. I agree it doesn't make sense in this context but it was more of an attempt to discredit. Kinda like how the term conspiracy theorist is popular for that purpose.
Yeah, my stance, on conspiracy theorists and their theories themselves, is that they're definitely a little bit crazy and a little bit unsubstantiated, but I think it's wholly impossible to say that conspiracy theories are always wrong. Because, before the Tuskegee Syphilis experiment, MKUltra, and... Ahhh, I can't remember the third one; maybe the Bilderberg group? Although, it hasn't been confirmed that the Bilderberg group has nefarious plans and whatnot. All we know is that it exists and it's very secretive. Anyway, before those, there were conspiracy theories about the existence of those government experiments and Bilderberg. So, whoever came up with those theories was right. I don't think the government is above committing conspiracies of any kind. There's just so many terrible conspiracy theories that ruin the credibility of the relatively smart conspiracy theories, and the ones who came up with them. My creed has always been "innocent until proven guilty" when it comes to science and other people's theories. For instance, ghosts definitely haven't caused what most people call "paranormal phenomena" (it's been scientifically attributed to low noise frequencies causing a sense of fear and foreboding, and it's been attributed to some other natural phenomena as well.) Also, UFO sightings have been attributed to various atmospheric anomalies or simply the lights of far away cars driving down the highway. But, I'm not gonna say, outright, that the paranormal doesn't exist until there's absolute proof against their existence. "Absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence." As someone I don't know has quoted.

In my opinion, proving something wrong should be as, or more, important than proving something right.

Probably should stop this discussion to allow the thread to get back on topic, though.
 
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