New 11 Year Waka (Micronized)

[Monkava'd]

I am very happy that there is simple way to test the presence of a tudei strain, but I hope it won't be too much of a stretch to somehow refine the test somehow to check for how much tudei a product contains. That would help me tremendously knowing what cultivars are contained in a product and also to what degree.

Is this not what you're looking for Headhodge?

Yes this's generalizing a bit and to the "layman" who knows what those numbers really mean but in summation harpos given us a prime comparison and obvious clarity at what justifies tudei or otherwise.
@Deleted User Along with the test resiaks performed and especially the one you've posted on the 11 year waka I keep my mouth closed and my eyes wide open.
View attachment 1354
A result like that is blatant as the sky is blue and the grass is green.
Here's what I find interesting, take note of the Qila Leka .
What does that say about the 11 year waka hmmm? Now I'm not holding anyone accountable and I honestly don't care about that okay....I care about results and if they're conclusive than my opinion evolves to fit the status quo. Keep in mind that's only once we figure out a more exacting line of nobility because right now isa sits at 5000 on that nifty little chart; we're debating whether anything over 3000 should be declared as non-noble or "less noble" so where does the line sit?


This's quite a conundrum so I'll watch from the sidelines to let the turbulence work itself out.


Oh and @globalkavaexports if you take a look at your malekula magic which I'm fond of...wherever the line of nobility sits it appears to be below the "non-noble" category so it's safe in that respect.

But remember that color is actually more of a generalization which means the color is what's coordinated to the numbers in respect to a cultivars nobility. So maybe 3000 to 3600 is noble or maybe anything past 3200 but less than 3800 is just "less noble" but eh what does that *really mean" anyways @Deleted User ?

 

[Monkava'd]

Quote removed due to privacy request

Exactly and other than isa (which's not a Hawaiian cultivar anyways)
what we know about Hawaiian kavas is that they're all noble.

This cannot be disputed because we have the research and evidence to back it up. I'm tired of the debate of "taking sides" (i'm not accusing you of doing so) or one vendors kava being favored over another; when in reality it has nothing to do with the vendor and everything to do with the damn products. If a kava isn't noble and causes no physical or mental harm then that's freakin fine but if I want to know whether it's noble or tudei than why should I be lambasted for such a thing.

An example is if how i'm able to inquire through the freedom of information act a certain file or case study on how the government is withholding the important documents validating the use of tesla technology; with coiled materials in order to produce free energy by way of ionization of certain molecules in the air generating a method of capturing plasma. Voilà, powering my vehicle or house. Why shouldn't I be able to do the same with my kava and inquire testing through a method( laymans acetone testing) that validates the safety of the kava?

Fine it's not full proof yet but I promise if there's an error made names and cultivars will be cleared. If tudei kava is found to be truly harmful in the long term; then I'm glad I have the research available to confirm such a thing. If for w/e reason (theory) tudei generally contains a higher amount of the compounds produced within makas (that all cultivars contain as a med grind) that cause dermopathy than noble kava; shouldn't I be able to make my personal choice of whether or not to purchase said kavas concreted on the facts of the matter and not my opinionated bias.

"If it aint broke don't fix it".....I understand that when all of the information is available at hand but as of now it isn't, we don't know what's not broke, might be broke or *exactly* what to do to fix it yet if it is.

Follow the yellow brick road as they say and see where it leads because we might be making assumptions that turn into fact or facts that again become assumptions.

Btw kavasseurs, you're all doing a great job and no one has done any harm. I just had to unwind for a minute on this subject.

@Deleted User I respect your "black and white" approach to your results and keeping to the scientific nature of the whole project or basically not injecting opinion on the grounds of fact. Results are results so what else can be said when you're process is being reviewed by professionals right?

 

[HeadHodge]

Is this not what you're looking for Headhodge?

No not really, although it's a great beginning.

The next step for me would simply be for each kava product we buy have at least something along the lines of:
PRODDUCT XXX
Serving Size: xx TBS
Servings per Container xx
Chemotype xxx-xxx
Percent Nobel xx%
Percent Non-Noble xx%
% Minimum Daily Requirements for a HardHead xx%

 

[HeadHodge]

Exactly and other than isa (which's not a Hawaiian cultivar anyways)
what we know about Hawaiian kavas is that they're all noble.

This cannot be disputed because we have the research and evidence to back it up. I'm tired of the debate of "taking sides" (i'm not accusing you of doing so) or one vendors kava being favored over another; when in reality it has nothing to do with the vendor and everything to do with the damn products. If a kava isn't noble and causes no physical or mental harm then that's freakin fine but if I want to know whether it's noble or tudei than why should I be lambasted for such a thing.

We'll come on, that's not true at all. Isa (tudei) does grow in Hawaii, it was given by Dr. Lebot to a few people and from there it spread to others. I tried some and didn't care for it and would probably never want it again, but it was definitely non-noble.

 

[violet]

If a kava isn't noble and causes no physical or mental harm then that's freakin fine but if I want to know whether it's noble or tudei than why should I be lambasted for such a thing.

While potential safety issues are certainly worth attention, the inarguable issue is what your money is paying for when you buy kava. Tudei is a much cheaper crop to produce than noble kava. Asking the question of whether a kava is noble, tudei, or blended, is also important so you can decide if you are getting ripped off by mislabeled kava.

If I know what I am getting is pure noble and that is what I want, then I am a happy customer with what I am paying. If I want noble and am led to believe I am purchasing pure noble at stated price and find out instead that it is indeed a blend/tudei, I'm not going to be too pleased with someone taking advantage of my commerce.

If I pay a premium price for a kava that is supposed to be noble and premium and I come to find out it's mostly tudei, I'm going to be more than a little miffed. Someone somewhere along the line made a switch or misrepresentation of the product so they could make a lot of extra dough on the sale. A reputable seller that has been duped by a supplier is not going to force his/her customers to pick up the slack for a mistake he/she made.

 

[violet]

@HeadHodge There are plants which are Isa (definitely non-noble) in Hawaii. But Isa is not a Hawaiian kava.

 

[Monkava'd]

No not really, although it's a great beginning.

The next step for me would simply be for each kava product we buy have at least something along the lines of:
PRODDUCT XXX
Serving Size: xx TBS
Servings per Container xx
Chemotype xxx-xxx
Percent Nobel xx%
Percent Non-Noble xx%
% Minimum Daily Requirements for a HardHead xx%

I think that's a lovely fantasy but the issue is the fact that kava doesn't come imported prettily from a 1'st world nation and that means thousands upon thousands of differing batches of kava possibly every week and how may we be assured of such things?
Don't get me wrong id love for this to be the case but customs here in the united states can't figure out the ass end of an underwear bomber; so how can we expect customs over in Oceania to do any better?
The tests may provide validation of merely one portion of an entire batch (see what I'm getting at) but it'd be up to the entire population of the planet to test their kavas and refuse to purchase the aforementioned kava until batches upon batches come out clean as a whistle. This's not dispensaries we're talking about, this's unregulated importation of many tonnes of kava a day and it would take worldwide reaction to control it down to a t in order to incorporate such labels as you or I would propose.

It blows my mind how far we've come already but there's a long way to go before we can discuss individual chemotypes or kavalactone percentage labeling on kavas other than Hawaiian.

Chris is in the wonderland of kava where everything is just fine it seems.

 

[HeadHodge]

@HeadHodge Chris has some "ornamental" plants which are Isa (definitely non-noble) in Hawaii. But Isa is not a Hawaiian kava.

I stand corrected (I think). I was under the impression that kava was not native to Hawaii at all but introduced to the island from elsewhere. If I'm incorrect in my understanding then I do stand corrected.

 

[HeadHodge]

While potential safety issues are certainly worth attention, the inarguable issue is what your money is paying for when you buy kava.....

Great post

 

[HeadHodge]

I think that's a lovely fantasy but the issue is the fact that kava doesn't come imported prettily from a 1'st world nation and that means thousands upon thousands of differing batches of kava possibly every week and how may we be assured of such things?

I don't think of it as a fantasy, I look at it as a worthy goal.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Everywhere the Poly's went, Johnny Kava Stem sprinkled kava through-out the land.
But Isa was brought to Hawai'i in modern times.

 

[Monkava'd]

While potential safety issues are certainly worth attention, the inarguable issue is what your money is paying for when you buy kava. Tudei is a much cheaper crop to produce than noble kava. Asking the question of whether a kava is noble, tudei, or blended, is also important so you can decide if you are getting ripped off by mislabeled kava.

If I know what I am getting is pure noble and that is what I want, then I am a happy customer with what I am paying. If I want noble and am led to believe I am purchasing pure noble at stated price and find out instead that it is indeed a blend/tudei, I'm not going to be too pleased with someone taking advantage of my commerce.

If I pay a premium price for a kava that is supposed to be noble and premium and I come to find out it's mostly tudei, I'm going to be more than a little miffed. Someone somewhere along the line made a switch or misrepresentation of the product so they could make a lot of extra dough on the sale. A reputable seller that has been duped by a supplier is not going to force his/her customers to pick up the slack for a mistake he/she made.

I understand your point completely and I think I may've not been direct enough in that part of my post.
let me rework that slightly and add a couple words.
Even if a kava isn't noble and is somehow *proven* to cause no physical or mental harm then that's freakin fine but if I want to know whether it's noble or tudei (because I'm paying for it and it might be my bottom dollar) then why should I be lambasted for such a thing.
"I'm" saying what you and others are saying but sometimes I get ahead of myself and am not as descriptive as a result of it. This's as reasonable as we can be without boundaries being overstepped by any party involved.

 

[HeadHodge]

Everywhere the Poly's went, Johnny Kava Stem sprinkled kava through-out the land.
But Isa was brought to Hawai'i in modern times.

Man I have got to get my act together with references so that I know what I say is true (per the reference at least). I'm not disagreeing with you at all, it just made me think I remember reading in Lebot's book that Vanuatu was the genesis for kava. I'm just going to have to get off my ass, and look it up again.

 

[Monkava'd]

I don't think of it as a fantasy, I look at it as a worthy goal.

I'll refer to my previous post where I just now said I get ahead of myself sometimes.
*As of now* (literally right now) that's a lovely fantasy.
Not because you're crazy or anything HeadHodge and I apologize if that came across the wrong way but more so since you're exactly right that case in point it's a worthy goal "someday". It could come with a quickness or it could be a slow trudge through the mud. I do envision a professional nakamal in cities throughout the world that're well presented and versed in the complete history of kava. And when it's sold in its packaged form as it is now, a label just like the one you've presented will be slapped on as a requirement; eventually enforced through law.

 

[HeadHodge]

I'll refer to my previous post where I just now said I get ahead of myself sometimes.
*As of now* (literally right now) that's a lovely fantasy.
Not because you're crazy or anything HeadHodge and I apologize if that came across the wrong way but more so since you're exactly right that case in point it's a worthy goal "someday". It could come with a quickness or it could be a slow trudge through the mud. I do envision a professional nakamal in cities throughout the world that're well presented and versed in the complete history of kava. And when it's sold in its packaged form as it is now a label just like the one you've presented will slapped on as a requirement by way of the law.

No worries... I'll tell you my real fantasy: THE KAVA PATCH. Instructions: Place one patch on left elbow for 10 minutes and prepare to be calm and happy for the rest of today (pun intended).

 

[Monkava'd]

No worries... I'll tell you my real fantasy: THE KAVA PATCH. Instructions: Place one patch on left elbow for 10 minutes and prepare to be calm and happy for the rest of today (pun intended).

Careful Headgie....wasn't our goal also to keep its popularity down so that knuckle heads out in the wild wild west wouldn't think of it as the next "thing". Hahaha I know you're just joking but you never know what may happen what with these Kalm with kavas and kava candies going around.

Don't worry Steve or Kalm with kava, your products are top notch and fit right into the "appropriate" kava niche hahah. They're well presented and professional enough to be taken seriously. I've yet to try either but soon I might have a little extra "kalm" in my workday or "candy" for my sweet tooth at lunchtime.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Man I have got to get my act together with references so that I know what I say is true (per the reference at least). I'm not disagreeing with you at all, it just made me think I remember reading in Lebot's book that Vanuatu was the genesis for kava. I'm just going to have to get off my ass, and look it up again.

I think it was definitely born of Papua or Vanuatu...Vanuatu certainly did the majority of the cultivation and honing down of useful varieties. As waves of migration from melanesia into polynesia began, they brought their favorite plants on the voyage...Hawai'i is likely the last and farthest place they got to...and of course brought their favorite beverage plants with them. Only bringing what they considered the best, without much room on the boats.

 

[HeadHodge]

I think it was definitely born of Papua or Vanuatu...Vanuatu certainly did the majority of the cultivation and honing down of useful varieties. As waves of migration from melanesia into polynesia began, they brought their favorite plants on the voyage...Hawai'i is likely the last and farthest place they got to...and of course brought their favorite beverage plants with them. Only bringing what they considered the best, without much room on the boats.

I totally believe that. Great explanation. It totally beats my theory that aliens propagated kava to make mankind happy!!

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I totally believe that. Great explanation. It totally beats my theory that aliens propagated kava to make mankind happy!!

I retract my previous statement:

Nanu Nanu was probably their greatest cultivar