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Noble Vs Tudei Kava - Megathread

HeadHodge

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
Deleted User said:
As a matter of fact, I do. Here's a breakdown of sample sources:
  1. Consumers (~75%): voluntary submissions, usually 1/4 cup. Half is used for testing, the remainder stored for future reference. One can assume the consumer paid the vendor for these.
  2. TK Certified Vendors (~15%): mandatory submission of each retail batch, voluntary submission of prospective products, same quantity and disposition.
  3. Other Vendors (~5%): voluntary submissions, usually 1/4 cup but occasionally retail package. Prospective products tested the same as for TK vendors, retail products tested but results not published unless compared to consumer submission of same product. All samples tested/stored, none consumed.
  4. Personal purchases (~5%): I often purchase kava specifically for testing, and also test every bag I buy for personal consumption.
Though I do solicit monetary donations, these do not cover operating costs. Donations to date have been $1543, expenses for equipment and supplies thus far have been $7492. The value of testing is priceless.
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These numbers look incorrect.
 
ApéroNoble

ApéroNoble

The d'Artagnan forum 4th Kavateer
MORTY: Aah! (Jack leaves) The nerve of that guy! Taking back that pen. Well that'it for them.

JERRY: What is going on in this kava community! Are you people aware of what's happening? What is driving you to this behavior? Is it the humudity? Is it the Muzak? Is it the white shoes?

 
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Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Squanch72 said:
If a vendor has the decency to only sell noble root for people solely looking for noble root, why shouldn't it be a plus for them to have their root certified noble? I'm confused, how is that a bad thing?
Like even for fans of tudei, wouldn't you want your root labeled tudei so you can find it eaiser? And for others that don't want tudei, they would be able to avoid it?
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My feeling is that Kava vendors who have direct control over production, particularly if they cultivate their own product, are given an advantage by this system.

Most Kava that is purchased in developing Pacific Island nations is inconsistent. A vendor might buy from 200 farmers on one island and call the Kava "Tanna" or "Pentecost." There will be intra and inner-batch differences and you could perhaps even find a significant difference within a bag of Kava.

Proposing a label for a particular Kava would thus be a snapshot of that Kava as it passed through a lab. It would not necessarily reflect what is inside the bag. Claiming that something is "certified" Noble could thus even potentially present legal obligations or penalties to a vendor.

This idea of "spiking" Kava actually represents an economic situation where farmers mix in less desirable Kava to meet a shipment demand, or make additional money. "Spiking," in this context, is actually probably a bit derogatory for what is actually happening.

In addition to this, I would go back to an anthropological deconstruction of the way we categorize things in the West in terms of "pure" and "impure." The testers on this site consistently go back to indigenous classification system, but typically can't explain anecdotes where Tudei is consumed in a traditional context. The legislation that is referenced seems to be tailored to export anxieties and in reference to previous Kava bans. It is not an internally generated classification system, but a system that adapted to a Western economic sanction.
 
Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
Why is it so inconsistent ? Because they get away with it. If we continue the noble and tuedi separation process, we are trying to do. Then farmers will have no choice and same with suppliers but to know what they are selling.... the fact that it's tough for someone to sell kava is not an excuse for selling shit. Just like kkrus, he whined and bitched because poor me I ended up with adulterated kava.. instead of him just saying okay micro vanaautu is not 100% noble but hey who still wants it.. he tried to convince us that the tests are wrong or tampered, and Blue screen his "home acetone test" which he then claimed acetone isn't efficient as a tester.. and honestly I don't think he's that bad of a guy.. there are worse less ethical people out there who want to make money no matter what, and that's not gonna stand with 90% of Kava consumers... I don't give two shits if you threw back tuedi shells with modern day solomon islanders, just like I don't see modern day native American ciggarete smokers as evidence that Native Americans didn't advise 100% against the INHALATION of tobbaco. Because guess what .. they've been tampered with through us, just like islanders only started going against their own Indigenous wisdom when once again westerners got involved. So it seems its quite the opposite of what your saying to be true.. no body really cares if you or anyone else drinks tuedi... its about truth in labeling .. and just because we're not 100% where we need to be yet doesn't mean the whole idea is crap and we should just give up testing and discriminating against those practicing cause someone isn't gonna make money and it's tough not be a farmer ... cry cry. Sorry had to rant today
 
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
I would suggest that you buy a plane ticket to Vanuatu and see how feasible it is to guarantee Kava purity from field, to port, to market.
 
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
How much experience do you have with agribusiness? I have quite a lot. I cultivate 40 acres of cocoa in West Africa. When I purchased 12,000 + seedlings in 2011 to begin planting, I had to perform some tests to make sure I was planting a consistent variety to ensure a consistent product. The reality was that the seedlings spanned across over 60 different hybrids, including genetically ancient varieties from Mexico. When I talked with other cocoa producers, they had similar issues across their land. And compare me, an investor from the United States who started with $100,000 in capital, with a farmer with four or five acres who pools his cocoa beans with other farmers'.

My point is not that we should accept an "anything goes" model. I think people should be prepared to pay a premium for guaranteed, heirloom varieties of Kava. And I think they do. But there is a strong anti-Tudei contingent here that would have everything that doesn't get tested by you get discarded as crap and put on a watch list.

I am simply here to tell you that you are mixing two realities. Get down to Vanuatu and see for yourself. I think you would be shocked at the genetic variety within a field, within a community, within an island, and within a nation.

And what would you have an export board do? Test every kilo of Kava and stamp a chemotype on the bag?
 
Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Zac Imiola (Herbalist)

Kava Connoisseur
I'm pretty sure your misinterpreting our point... labeling .. that's it. The stuff that gets put on watch lists are stuff that claims to be noble or doesn't claim anything..

Why would we have to put a kava that is known 100% tuedi on a watch list ? That sounds pointless. As the labeling of tuedi would automatically make that need obsolete ..
 
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Mrbinx69 said:
Or even 60% tuedi 40% noble... why put that on a watch list if that's already on the package?
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Under whose authority? This issue comes down to a grassroots regulatory movement trying to influence a huge market. Can you think of a comparable product quality control mechanism? I can't. And the fact of the matter is that people are going to buy whatever Kava is available. You can be sure that most people off this board, at Kava bars across the country, don't care about these Kava tests and would be confused about all these red flags that scream danger.
 
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